Spool Turbo MP3 Blew Up

[TurfBurn]

Have you tried a manual boost controller? Even with my wacky spool manifold I eliminated the really disturbing boost creep with a manual boost controller.

Back when I had the Greddy Profec E-01 for boost control, and the Spool manifold, I had spikes up to the mid 15s, and up to 18 if I remember correctly..

What was the AFR change on those spikes? Was it going lean/rich?

No I tuned it so it would hold a constant 12.1 AFR through the creep. I was able to initially estimate the curve based off what I had tuned in already and then watched it during some creep to make sure that it held ok AFR's. I never had the problem until I put a Profec B-Spec II on the car. Before it would spike once in a while, but it wouldn't boost creep the way it did/does now. Seems to be the same problem a number of people have had with the Spec II I guess from what Beavis has said to me, but I don't know for sure.

The Microtech would kill the ignition at 14 psi so that you just had extra fuel and no spark if you got that high. But the highest it got on the day of the race and the day before was 12.1 psi which wasn't bad at all.. other than being 4 psi over my 8 psi set point.

 

[roni]

How do you have the injectors controlled, and at what duty cycle are they running?

 

[TurfBurn]

the injectors were controlled via the microtech standalone firing sequential for each cylinder. The highest value they were open for was around 9.8ms but I believe if it crept near 14 that it would get to nearly 11 ms which terry told me that i needed to stay at 10.2 or less. But I never saw any leaning out and it didn't make it to 14 psi at all that day, so I'm not concerned that it went over the 10.2 Terry recommended.

Just pulled the plugs out... and have pictures for you guys of the holes.. they are PLENTY big . But anyway... all the cylinders were flooded with fuel. every plug was soaking wet to the point of having a fluid bridge between the electrode and the tip.

Turns out that cylinder number 4 (the furthest to the right) is what blew. the rod definitely snapped. The bad news is that my spark plug got a love tap. Not enough to really damage it but it was hit by the piston, so that makes me wonder if the valves got nailed as well or if the head took any major damage. Won't know until I pull it off I guess....

 

[TurfBurn]

Here are pics of the damaged spark plugs and the spark plugs as a group.

The damaged one no long has a gap.. the electrode is against the point. and you can see the metal damage on the tip there.

 

[TurfBurn]

These first pics are the hole that got knocked out of the bearing support plate... and you'll see what is left of the rod in the hole....

 

[TurfBurn]

And these last pics are of the whole in the block itself that was right behind the starter. You can also see what I'm guessing is a coolant passage or clearance hole at the top edge of the fracture.

 

[Bigg Tim]

These first pics are the hole that got knocked out of the bearing support plate... and you'll see what is left of the rod in the hole....

OUCH!!! So aybe it looks like you were too rich, if there was that much fuel in there. If you had it tuned for 8PSI and it went up to 11 or 14, then you definatly were bound to blow. How can the motor be tuned for 8 and still run on 14 with only enough fuel and timing for 8? I would think that's why you felt no power difference, but I could be wrong.

So it's finally nice to hear from the little one on here. CONEH8R, you have to step up and not take that s*** from them man! But I would have to agree with Beavis, the MP3 will own ya!

yeah...no faith huh?

STIs pull more like 234WHP...Our cars are around that WHP with ~11psi

I got almost 230WHP at 8psi.(headbang)

 

[TurfBurn]

OUCH!!! So aybe it looks like you were too rich, if there was that much fuel in there. If you had it tuned for 8PSI and it went up to 11 or 14, then you definatly were bound to blow. How can the motor be tuned for 8 and still run on 14 with only enough fuel and timing for 8? I would think that's why you felt no power difference, but I could be wrong.

You misunderstood me a little . I had the car set to run 8 on the controller and so forth. But I tuned fuel and timing maps for up to 14/15 psi. So although it is supposed to run at 8 psi, it could creep above that and the appropriate fuel would be dumped in to keep it within the range I wanted it to be. I just simply didn't run it up there normally. Make more sense now? I would have a nice even 12.1 ish AFR from about 1 psi all the way up to 14 psi. But there was no difference in pull of the car from 4-12 psi at all.

 

[Bigg Tim]

You misunderstood me a little . I had the car set to run 8 on the controller and so forth. But I tuned fuel and timing maps for up to 14/15 psi. So although it is supposed to run at 8 psi, it could creep above that and the appropriate fuel would be dumped in to keep it within the range I wanted it to be. I just simply didn't run it up there normally. Make more sense now? I would have a nice even 12.1 ish AFR from about 1 psi all the way up to 14 psi. But there was no difference in pull of the car from 4-12 psi at all.

OIC!!! As I was then! Thanks for the clerification, sorry I misunderstood. So how will you determine the root cause of the failure?

 

[MPNick]

Here are pics of the damaged spark plugs and the spark plugs as a group.

The damaged one no long has a gap.. the electrode is against the point. and you can see the metal damage on the tip there.

Why are you running such a cold heat range plug? What was your gap?


Thanks again


Later.......Nick

 

[igdrasil]

check my blown motor

http://www2.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70821

 

[TurfBurn]

Why are you running such a cold heat range plug? What was your gap?


Thanks again


Later.......Nick

It was a 7 heat range plug because it was extended reach and from the discussion in that thread you would need to run one range colder than with a standard plug due to the proximity in the head. So that was why I was running that.

My gap was .28 I believe. On that one plug it is now .000

 

[MPNick]

It was a 7 heat range plug because it was extended reach and from the discussion in that thread you would need to run one range colder than with a standard plug due to the proximity in the head. So that was why I was running that.

My gap was .28 I believe. On that one plug it is now .000

Turbo engines and extended reach scare the s-it out of me. The stock plug is a 5 on your car I think. The MSP came with 6s from Mazda. Thats what were are running right now and we use a .025 gap. They are working well @21psi. Did not dyno yet but I would guess it will be around the 360whp range.

Not trying to sound all knowing about things but until I see a problem with some part I would not make alot of changes. One thing we may be seeing is the stock OEM coils are not working well at higher boost levels. If we needed to go to a colder plug[so far we do not] I think the spark would be even more of a problem. Running a colder plug then you need will not help when tuning or with power.


Thanks again


Later............Nick

 

[CONEH8R]

So it's finally nice to hear from the little one on here. CONEH8R, you have to step up and not take that s*** from them man! But I would have to agree with Beavis, the MP3 will own ya!

Yeah, he's faster, I just like giving him s*** since mine runs very well, but it should it's stock.

 

[TurfBurn]

Turbo engines and extended reach scare the s-it out of me. The stock plug is a 5 on your car I think. The MSP came with 6s from Mazda. Thats what were are running right now and we use a .025 gap. They are working well @21psi. Did not dyno yet but I would guess it will be around the 360whp range.

Not trying to sound all knowing about things but until I see a problem with some part I would not make alot of changes. One thing we may be seeing is the stock OEM coils are not working well at higher boost levels. If we needed to go to a colder plug[so far we do not] I think the spark would be even more of a problem. Running a colder plug then you need will not help when tuning or with power.

I'd trust your recommendations and ideas far before I trust my own... so no worries as to my accepting your advice or recommendations. I do know that the extended reach plug made the car idle and run a lot better than it did before I switched. I was pretty happy with them. I likely won't run them though with the rebuilt engine. I was running the colder plug out of safety concern to make sure I didn't get a hot spot and induce pre-ignition that way off the plug.

Terry didn't seem to have had any problems at 16 psi with coils or so forth... how is Dana's car doing with the higher boost and stock coils? I do wonder where the limit is going to be on that and when we have to be concerned. At that point I'll likely switch microtech's and go to Bosch coils.

I'll just need you to start coming up with a good CP piston block for me .

 

[igdrasil]

Im in need on some forged goods....and a new engine.

 

[ddogg777]

Im in need on some forged goods....and a new engine.

Call Beau and tell him you want a set of Oliver rods and CP pistons, $1200 I believe.

 

[Kooldino]

A bigger problem is most of the red glow was from the number one runner at the flange. That runner seems to be the worst with back pressure. That means that the AFR in that cylinder will not be the same as with the other cylinders as the boost goes up.

BTW, this backs up what I've been saying for years...cylinder #1 is probably the leanest, and that's why I put the EGT probe there.

 

[Kooldino]

Can see that being the problem. Deans car made 328 with the very same extra injector setup and he was in 4th gear everytime. Not one time did he have any red glowing anything from his car. He was also running 15psi just like you and he did not the 5.0 volt cut. He now is running 21psi and still it does not look like a neon light anywhere under his hood, no glowing at all.

Well for starters, he has a thick, cast mani. I have a thin, stainless mani. So we're not exactly comparing apples to apples here. Furthermore, nothing started glowing until i hit my 5v limit on the MAF. The MAF limit and the glowing manifold are probably related to an extent.

BTW, when is a runner glows near the head port first and then works it way down to the flange you have a lean cylinder. If the flange glows first and then starts to work its way up to the head then you have backpressure problems. Your flange got red hot and then it moved up a small amount on the runner. You had to back off because of the fire and hitting the 5.0 limit, if not you runner would have been glowing all the way up to the head. I will post the video tonight so you can see what I am talking about.

Yeah, post the vid, I wanna see it.

 

[Kooldino]

Ok, I'm done now... back to the corner...

Back to th corner? What is Jeremy pimping you guys out?






(If so, I want a date)