- :
- North of Toronto
- :
- 2019 CX-9 Sig
Interesting. I'm tempted to try. Not much else to do for fun now.
That is probably better info for OP. Not how it does it, but will it help as is.
Question on the AWD system
- Thread starter hal2
- Start date
Interesting. I'm tempted to try. Not much else to do for fun now.
That is probably better info for OP. Not how it does it, but will it help as is.
Subaru's reputation was built on the tremendous success they had in World Rally team competitions. Their AWD system combined with the Boxer engine (which lowers center of gravity and helps with the "symetrical aspect") is a big advantage in the rally competitions.
As you know Subaru's AWD is full-time (50/50 front/rear on most models). Mazda's is very good, and can transfer power in a millisecond in advance of slippage (particularly with the predictive elements), but it is not full-time.
Note Subaru's AWD systems are not identical on all models. The WRX that is used in racing will have "torque vectoring". So the masses heard Subaru has great AWD and wins championships, and don't know the details that not all models have the same AWD.
I read that a fairly high % of Subaru owners do actually go off-road. And I guess if you want both on-road and off-road, Subaru may be a better option than Jeep.
I agree, but the data you are asking for does not exist.
I'm posting the most relevant data that is available, which shows the AWD version is slower and has the same amount of 'grip' on the skidpad.
The data I have provided, along with the analysis from multiple sources regarding whether AWD helps with handling, is the ONLY relevant data posted here.
It is certainly better than multimut posting FAKE videos of people driving cars in a video game, then another video of a FWD CX-5, in an attempt to show advantages of AWD.
- :
- Canada
The data you have provided is indeed relevant, but it is not all-encompassing. In a straight-line 0-60 test on clean, dry roadway, FWD is faster because it is lighter. That does not automatically make it faster in high-speed cornering situations. In order for that to be true, we would have to qualify that statement by comparing lap times on a closed test track/autocross course.
We don't have that info. I did a quick google search and couldn't find any information either. What we do have is driver testimony from those who have driven both FWD and AWD. It isn't ideal, but it's what we have. Can't be proven right, but can't be proven wrong either.
I don't think the Forza video multimut posted was meant to be taken seriously. Nobody else used it as actual evidence to prove a point they were making. And the video of the CX-5 on the track does showcase a FWD version (I think), but it doesn't prove that FWD is better than AWD in aggressive driving situations in similar conditions. In fact, some of the turns taken in the video would have been handled much better by the AWD system (which in theory, could result in a faster lap time).
Again, the question is whether or not the predictive system uses the sensor info to detect aggressive driving and "pre-load" the AWD system in clean, dry conditions. Not "is AWD better than FWD".
I appreciate you acknowledging this point.
The sole purpose of this thread has been about AWD benefits/advantages in dry conditions.
I'm surprised my position was even controversial to be honest, but I'm glad you've now seen the light.
I think it's because AWD proponents spent a lot of money for this feature, so they feel they must defend their decision at all costs.
Given the weight penalty, drivetrain power losses, longer stopping distances, lower MPG, higher cost and higher complexity, I think you are still grasping at straws a bit to say it is the "superior".
It is also FALSE to say it is "vastly better" in poor weather conditions. It certainly allows you to accelerate more quickly in bad conditions, but that is about it.
And resale should be higher, as the AWD version costs $1400 more, plus sales tax, plus interest (if financing), plus lower fuel economy, plus higher maintenance (assuming you replace the transfer case/differential fluid at some point).
- :
- RDX Aspec Adv.
It doesnt suddenly transmit the power. It variable does so. The brakes are used like in the McLaren P1, to transfer torque between tires. Many arguments exist.
Here's How The McLaren P1 Makes Do Without An LSD | Carscoops
If you want a car that handles well, you typically want one with a limited-slip differential. Sure, there are exceptions, but in the world of performance
www.carscoops.com
- :
- RDX Aspec Adv.
Yes, people have dataloged it. It works a LOT more than you think it does in daily driving.
- :
- RDX Aspec Adv.
I've driven both. It matters a lot. I've s*** all over entire car purchases before. I have no need to BS about $1500 options to "feel better".
- :
- Canada
Uno, could you provide some sources to those who have datalogged it? That's important info that would answer the OP's original question.
- :
- Canada
Maybe in a future infotainment update we could get a feature similar to the Pilot's i-VTM4 display. Might be too distracting to the driver though.
I agree with most of this, but I was largely responding to the OP's question...
But im curious if it's available under performance and spirited driving. Or put another way, is it simply for safety and not performance.
In order to determine if AWD is providing any meaningful performance benefit, you would need to compare it to the performance of a non-AWD vehicle.
Yes, in an ideal world, we would have back-to-back lap time comparisons. But that does not exist. All of the information currently available points to AWD in the CX-5 having no meaningful performance benefit in dry conditions.
He absolutely meant it to be taken seriously, as he was desperately grasping at straws to prove the benefits of AWD. This was his response...
People have done testing at the track. Here a good one. Identical car, set up as AWD, FWD or RWD
Results in ideal conditions (dry): #1 AWD, #2 RWD, #3 FWD
Does that sound like he was making a joke?
This is the same reason he posted video of a FWD vehicle on a test track and wrongly positioned it as a AWD mode.
- :
- RDX Aspec Adv.
I want to say Chris did.
- :
- North of Toronto
- :
- 2019 CX-9 Sig
The boxer layout i get.
But I find it interesting, last 4 vehicles I purchased i looked at subaru. Then read reviews, never seem to come out on top when driving dynamics on pavement are considered. Despite the boxer layout.
Often losing to Mazdas!
I had forgotten the full time AWD part. That is a step up in traction, which for me is the reason I have AWD (snow, ice). So point for Subie there.
WRX...ya that is one hell of a halo car. Had 2 buddies own. Both gave up as their back was taking beating. But was a fun car to borrow. I did see that in my research about their AWD. I found myself wondering if they'd ever expand the system to other models. Just not many of us who can do the wrx thing everyday to get that advantage.
I thought you couldn't see my posts?
You think the fake content from the multiple videos you've posted is more relevant?
Do you always bury your head in the sand when someone challenges your opinions & preconceived notions with facts and expert third-party analysis?
And there you go again, you cannot admit the obvious advantages of the AWD system which makes it superior.....and now relegate yourself to nothing more then a FWD fanboy. The FACTS are the AWD CX5 is vastly better in poor weather driving....how you even want to debate that is ridiculous and weakens your biased viewpoint.
Also the resale is higher on the used market because frankly an FWD only SUV is a joke in most of the country, I watched the used market closely at the time of my purchase in January, used 2019 FWD cx5's were priced 4-5k lower then equal mileage AWD. Facts which are not debateable....and they SAT on dealers lots. Funny how that works.
Obvisouly an AWD CX5 is engineered to a higher quality thus the premium paid vs a less complicated and rudimentary FWD. The advantages and peace of mind of the AWD makes it a relative bargain at only a 1400 option.
- :
- Canada
In instrumented testing, yes. That said, I found this article written by Edmunds from 2017, which states:
"Improves dry handling: This benefit applies only to AWD vehicles with torque vectoring. The AWD version of the Acura TLX is one example. Acura's Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) distributes torque to all four wheels, using a pair of electromagnetic clutches to freely regulate torque distribution between the rear wheels. This system is one of the rare cases in which AWD can help with cornering."
Based on this, my understanding is that when you push the car (tires) to the limit of their grip, regardless of whether it is FWD or AWD, it will perform the same.
However, when you push past that limit and the wheels start to slip, AWD kicks in and assists in correction. Generally speaking, AWD systems are primarily for safety, but the RDX's more complex AWD system with torque vectoring adds some performance to the mix.
At the end of the day it's about driver preference and the overall package. It's clear that the RDX has the better AWD system, but it seems that many praise the handling of the CX-5 even without torque vectoring. For the record, the 2019 RDX A-Spec measures .81g on the skidpad (tested by MT and C&D), and the 2019 CX-5 Signature measures .79g (tested by C&D).
Actually it does sounds like he was making a joke to me, but I can only speak for myself. Again, nobody else latched on to it, possibly because they also perceived it as a joke. A lot can be lost in just reading words on a page without being able to hear the tone.
Also easy to confuse the FWD CX-5 in the video for an AWD CX-5 - again, it was never clarified in the video, and you didn't catch on either until I pointed it out. multimut also edited his post yesterday to reflect that the CX-5 in the video is FWD - didn't see that until just now.
- :
- Canada
He can't, but he can probably see what you write when others quote you in their replies.
