New CX-5 GS vibration issue

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2018 cx5 GT
It's been super cold here all week and my engine has been completely and utterly dead. Feels like it's running on two cylinders. The ECU pulls timing big time at these temps until it is sure the oil temperature is normal, which takes 20-30 minutes of driving to achieve at temps like this.

My liquid engine mounts froze solid last Wednesday and the car has felt and run like complete and utter garbage ever since. I really understand how frustrated the Canadian market has been over this issue now. This car feels shockingly, embarrassingly crude and under-engineered when this condition rears its head. The little tin can Ford Escort I drove 25 years ago as my first car felt like a Lexus compared to my CX-5 driving experience this past week.

Taking off from stops is the worst of it. The car vibrates so terribly it feels like it's destroying itself. And the NOISE. Like some cheap subwoofer blasting a 70hz sine wave at full volume. Mazda is not getting nearly enough flak for this engineering gaff.

Yours too hey? Mine felt so gutless in this cold also felt like it had 50hp.
 

Pipemajor

Hoot Mon!
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Minnesota
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2017 CX-5 GT AWD
I work at a dealer in the northern USA, I don't want to say exactly where, but temperatures below 0F are common here. With all due respect, users from Texas and the UK would never see this kind of cold and have no idea what the Canadians are talking about.

This shudder (IMO, it's more than just a vibration) has nothing to do with ice or snow build up in the driveline or wheels. The best way I can describe it is it's like driving a car with a manual trans in too high of a gear; it's like you're lugging it to death. I took one out when it was -15F and it felt like the engine was about to drop out of the thing. The only remedy for this in the meanwhile is to manually shift the car down a gear when it starts to shudder.

From what I've been told Mazda USA hasn't given us much to work with so far. We've been told they think it's the liquid motor mounts (and from my experience, I believe that to be true.) I wouldn't be surprised if the fix would be an ECU update to raise the shift points when the car detects extremely cold temps. Much, much cheaper than replacing motor mounts.

I've had this happen to a '15 and recently to my '17 CX5. Once the temp dives to -20F (-29C) the engine vibration at idle and when the auto trans upshifts below 1500 RPM is severe. A couple of weeks ago one of those polar vortex events dropped down to visit. My son was using my unheated but attached garage while he was out of town so the '17 CX5 GT was left outside unused for several days. I needed it to make a 10 mile trip and it never did stop these vibrations. I tried shifting manually to keep the revs up a bit which helped.

I also had issues with it not recognizing the NAV SD card, the front SCBS sensor reported an error and the car didn't recognize I did have my seat belt fastened.

During my meeting we parked in a heated underground garage. When I returned to the vehicle 2 hours later it was fine.

It's definitely the motor mounts but the safety gadgets shutting down in frigid conditions is a bit more worrisome.
 
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2018 cx5 GT
It's been super cold here all week and my engine has been completely and utterly dead. Feels like it's running on two cylinders. The ECU pulls timing big time at these temps until it is sure the oil temperature is normal, which takes 20-30 minutes of driving to achieve at temps like this.

My liquid engine mounts froze solid last Wednesday and the car has felt and run like complete and utter garbage ever since. I really understand how frustrated the Canadian market has been over this issue now. This car feels shockingly, embarrassingly crude and under-engineered when this condition rears its head. The little tin can Ford Escort I drove 25 years ago as my first car felt like a Lexus compared to my CX-5 driving experience this past week.

Taking off from stops is the worst of it. The car vibrates so terribly it feels like it's destroying itself. And the NOISE. Like some cheap subwoofer blasting a 70hz sine wave at full volume. Mazda is not getting nearly enough flak for this engineering gaff.
I wonder if the frozen motor mount had anything to do with it. It*s possible the vibration caused the knock sensor to pull timing with all the vibration inside the motor it*s possible? Mine vibrated at idle so bad I thought the interior was going to fall apart and the rear view camera even vibrated lol, you could feel it while at speed but not that much more so at idle, but either way. As soon as mine smoothed our after the mount thawed a bit the power was back.
Also today was -18 and I drove a couple min the punched it to see and it had full power. The vibration wasn*t there either as it has been warmer the day before and thawed a bit. So who knows
 
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Did they change the liquid filled mount for a traditional rubber one, or did they just re-design a new liquid mount with fluid that doesn't freeze at low temps? If it's the latter then I am definitely interested in getting mine replaced too. I was afraid they would just sub a rubber one and the NVH would be worse overall in warmer weather. As awful as this is when it's super cold have to say in warmer weather the liquid mounts are great. It's definitely the smoothest 4-cyl idle I have ever experienced in the summer, except for the A/C condenser cycling creating those little shudders kind of ruins it a bit.
 
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92 MX-3; 18 CX-5
Zeroman: Thanks for the update. Do you have a TSB reference?
To my Russian, Canadian and Northern US friends: If you are experiencing this problem go to your dealer and request new rear engine mount: kn3l-39-040 (Zeroman reported this is the revised part in another thread).

Hopefully this ends the conspiracy theories re: Mazda screwing all customers who live in northern climates.
To some of the posters to this thread: Could it be that Mazda did not intentionally do this to YOU? ;)
A far more likely explanation: Mazda had goals for NVM and a gel filled motor mount helped get to those goals. Mazda specified and tested these mounts and awarded a contract to a supplier to provide gel filled mounts (rated for a range of temperatures that included cold northern climate temperatures). The motor mount supplier continued to optimize their manufacturing process to reduce costs / increase profits when they sell these to Mazda. Then comes the winter of 2018 / 2019 and some of these gel filled mounts are failing. And, unfortunately investigating the complaints, identifying the source and then adjusting the supply chain to provide revised motor mounts took a couple of months.
The pain is real. Definitely alert the dealers, Mazda regional support, etc. Nothing gets fixed until the problem is known. But, really some of the content of this thread is pretty wacky.
I'm sure that I'm not the only one to notice how quickly a Mazda fan turns Mazda foe.
 
@davmac

Since this feels a little bit directed at me, I just want to be clear. I'm not accusing Mazda of screwing customers or not acting in good faith, nor am I suggesting any kind of conspiracy. That's silly and I've never had any patience for that kind of internet nonsense.

What I have been saying is that I personally find it disappointing that a problem of this magnitude would be missed during development testing. It's not like these companies are fumbling along figuring out this whole "building cars" thing for the first time. There is a century of institutional engineering knowledge on how these things are done. Proper cold weather testing should have discovered this issue in the vehicle before it ever went on sale. Mazda deserves to be scrutinized a little bit for the fact that theirs didn't. That's all I'm saying.
 
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2018 cx5 GT
Zeroman: Thanks for the update. Do you have a TSB reference?
To my Russian, Canadian and Northern US friends: If you are experiencing this problem go to your dealer and request new rear engine mount: kn3l-39-040 (Zeroman reported this is the revised part in another thread).

Hopefully this ends the conspiracy theories re: Mazda screwing all customers who live in northern climates.
To some of the posters to this thread: Could it be that Mazda did not intentionally do this to YOU? ;)
A far more likely explanation: Mazda had goals for NVM and a gel filled motor mount helped get to those goals. Mazda specified and tested these mounts and awarded a contract to a supplier to provide gel filled mounts (rated for a range of temperatures that included cold northern climate temperatures). The motor mount supplier continued to optimize their manufacturing process to reduce costs / increase profits when they sell these to Mazda. Then comes the winter of 2018 / 2019 and some of these gel filled mounts are failing. And, unfortunately investigating the complaints, identifying the source and then adjusting the supply chain to provide revised motor mounts took a couple of months.
The pain is real. Definitely alert the dealers, Mazda regional support, etc. Nothing gets fixed until the problem is known. But, really some of the content of this thread is pretty wacky.
I'm sure that I'm not the only one to notice how quickly a Mazda fan turns Mazda foe.

Unfortunately I didn*t stay to get the paper work. But I*ll swing by and get it one of these days. And I*ll update for you guys.
 
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2017 CX-5 GT
Obviously Mazda did not intentionally do this to us. I'm pretty sure none of us thought that some Mazda engineer in Hiroshima decided "Hey, you know what would be a laugh. Let's screw over all the people that live in northern climates."

The only "wacky" thing here is my almost $40K GT feeling like it's about to shake itself apart after a few months of ownership, and then me coming on here to ask about it and people calling me naive and telling me it's likely harmonic imbalance because, you know, distribution of mass changes with temperature. I haven't even mentioned the fact that when it gets down to -25C or so the passenger airbag light starts flashing, and the SCBS light comes on despite the car being completely clear of snow.

Per my post #78

a) Mazda did not do cold weather testing of the 2017 CX-5
b) Mazda improperly did the cold weather testing of the 2017 Mazda CX-5
c) Mazda properly did the cold weather testing of the 2017 CX-5, discovered the issue, looked at the cost of fixing it vs. how many people live in places where the temperatures regularly fall below -20C, and decided to not fix it because of the corporate bottom line.
d) Mazda's supply chain sucks and provides them with inferior, sub-spec parts in quantities sufficient for the for the company to admit there is an issue.


Your theory is d). My theory is a) through c) because this vehicle clearly does not like cold weather.

I don't think those of you who haven't experienced this quite grasp how bad the shaking is when this happens. The best description so far was a cheap subwoofer blasting away at low frequency. Picture some kid in an old Civic you can hear from 200 feet away because every body panel is resonating due to the sub. It's that bad. The view from the rearview mirror literally goes blurry because the car is shaking so badly.

I'm sure that I'm not the only one to notice all the Mazda apologists here.

Zeroman: Thanks for the update. Do you have a TSB reference?
To my Russian, Canadian and Northern US friends: If you are experiencing this problem go to your dealer and request new rear engine mount: kn3l-39-040 (Zeroman reported this is the revised part in another thread).

Hopefully this ends the conspiracy theories re: Mazda screwing all customers who live in northern climates.
To some of the posters to this thread: Could it be that Mazda did not intentionally do this to YOU? ;)
A far more likely explanation: Mazda had goals for NVM and a gel filled motor mount helped get to those goals. Mazda specified and tested these mounts and awarded a contract to a supplier to provide gel filled mounts (rated for a range of temperatures that included cold northern climate temperatures). The motor mount supplier continued to optimize their manufacturing process to reduce costs / increase profits when they sell these to Mazda. Then comes the winter of 2018 / 2019 and some of these gel filled mounts are failing. And, unfortunately investigating the complaints, identifying the source and then adjusting the supply chain to provide revised motor mounts took a couple of months.
The pain is real. Definitely alert the dealers, Mazda regional support, etc. Nothing gets fixed until the problem is known. But, really some of the content of this thread is pretty wacky.
I'm sure that I'm not the only one to notice how quickly a Mazda fan turns Mazda foe.
 
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Fredericton Canada
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2018 CX-5 GT
My local dealer told me that this vibration engine mount issue was first reported in Russia, where I'm sure everyone realizes can get colder than Frosty's gonads on a warm winter day in some parts. With day and night long temps down below -20 C day in and day out it is no wonder these engine mounts were freezing up. If you park your car outside all day and night, in temps like this anywhere in the world, this rear engine mount is likely to freeze up. Even here in New Brunswick, Canada my dealer has already replaced one of these mounts. Fortunately I park my vehicle inside an unheated attached a garage when I'm at home, where the temp never gets below 5 C on the coldest winter nights while outside it might be an engine mount busting -30 C!!
 
Did we ever find out for sure what the replacement part is in the TSB? If it's a new liquid mount with a different fluid viscosity that has a lower freezing point then I'm definitely game to get mine changed. If the replacement mount is a traditional rubber one then it becomes a more difficult choice. Overall vehicle refinement will go down a little year round in that scenario and I wasn't terribly impressed by the CX-5's engine/transmission NVH isolation in the first place.
 
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92 MX-3; 18 CX-5
Hey all -a quick tag to my earlier post:
No bad feelings toward any of the posters. I would not be happy with a broken engine mount on a new car - and agree that Mazda and the CX-5 are not perfect.

And, maybe I'm a bit naive. But, tried to offer a different perspective based on my experience as an engineer and someone who evaluated and addressed customer complaints for several years related to industrial automation equipment. My experience: Products are tested for a range of conditions beyond what it will normally experience and beyond specs. No product is released with issues that large numbers of customers will experience. And yet, there are issues in the field. Full disclosure: Prioritizing the response to an issue is dependent on impact and frequency. That is why some issues get a recall, others a TSB and still others get nothing at all - except a dissatisfied customer.
 
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2018 Mazda CX-5 GT
I had the same vibration problem with my 2018 CX-5 GT and it turned out to be the rear engine mount. Mazda is fully aware of this issue. I live in Northern Ontario and when the temperature dropped below -25C the liquid filled motor mounts would freeze. Took the vehicle to the service center several times and they finally replaced the rear engine mount with one made of rubber. Have not had the problem since.
 
I had the same vibration problem with my 2018 CX-5 GT and it turned out to be the rear engine mount. Mazda is fully aware of this issue. I live in Northern Ontario and when the temperature dropped below -25C the liquid filled motor mounts would freeze. Took the vehicle to the service center several times and they finally replaced the rear engine mount with one made of rubber. Have not had the problem since.

But again the question is did you trade off some degree of refinement in warmer weather? The liquid mounts do their job very well when they aren't frozen. I think Mazda makes great engines and transmissions, but refinement was never really their priority for them. These liquid mounts are what finally brought the NVH somewhat in line with other brands. Returning to a rubber mount means you get some degree of vibration all the time I'm guessing.
 
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2018 cx5 GT
But again the question is did you trade off some degree of refinement in warmer weather? The liquid mounts do their job very well when they aren't frozen. I think Mazda makes great engines and transmissions, but refinement was never really their priority for them. These liquid mounts are what finally brought the NVH somewhat in line with other brands. Returning to a rubber mount means you get some degree of vibration all the time I'm guessing.

The new mount feels even smoother then the stock liquid mount did when it wasn*t frozen. So I*d go for it for sure !
 
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Fredericton Canada
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2018 CX-5 GT
Video of Out-of-Round Toyo A36 on my 2018 Mazda CX-5


I remember decades ago when I lived in Australia a friend telling me about a local tire dealer who could resolve this issue, so I had to see the process for myself. They had a special machine with very sharp blades that would shave off only a very thin layer of rubber making the tire perfectly round. This was done with the tire on the rim, which of course also had to be perfectly round to start with. It wasn't sometime I needed done but I was intrigued. I have yet to hear of such a process here on the east coast of Canada. Now, I do remember years ago(before I got my first CX-5) having minor vibration issues after having a new set of all seasons installed. It turned out that the tire installer(obviously not very experienced) had not installed the tires properly. Something about a mark on the tire having to be lined on the opposite side or the rim from the stem. The excessive use of wheel weights was another clue that something was wrong. Another tire dealer saw the problem, "broke down" the tire, spun it around on the rim to the proper location and low and behold, no more vibration and hardly any wheel weights needed!!