Vague Transmission Oil Change Recs Vs Common Sense & Reality

[yrwei52]

No, I don't think that a subtle change in part of your transmission's total fluid capacity would cause a whining sound.

But he did drain-and-fill 3 times, which means about 87% of his ATF would be Valvoline MaxLife. If the whining is indeed from his transmission after the ATF change, I’d say the Valvoline MaxLife could be the culprit, at least it’s one of the added factors to cause the transmission whining.

 

[yrwei52]

I read somewhere that max life was good for fz so I used it.

But the Valvoline MaxLife ATF bottle doesn’t say it meets Mazda “FZ” spec, hence it isn’t FZ compatible, period.

 

[yrwei52]

⋯ I hear a slight whine from the trans while driving

TSB No.: 05-002/19 Whining Noise from Automatic Transaxle

Actually this's the 7th revision on the same TSB for the same transmission whining noise due to front input bearing failure since 2014. Each time the TSB says "This is caused by a damaged bearing in the transaxle due to improper configuration of the transaxle case. A modification has now been implemented on automatic transaxles with the following serial numbers:". But it seems the modification continues and the same problem potentially is still there.

 

[N7turbo]

All of them do that. There is a difference between the normal whine at speed and one that occurs at low speed. If you have low speed transmission noises, that is more concerning.

 

[cx5_2014]

But the Valvoline MaxLife ATF bottle doesn’t say it meets Mazda “FZ” spec, hence it isn’t FZ compatible, period.

I saw this part comparability spec sheet which is one of the reasons I used Valvoline http://bigo.nontirevendor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/2015-ATF-Application-Guide.pdf

 

[cx5_2014]

TSB No.: 05-002/19 Whining Noise from Automatic Transaxle

Actually this's the 7th revision on the same TSB for the same transmission whining noise due to front input bearing failure since 2014. Each time the TSB says "This is caused by a damaged bearing in the transaxle due to improper configuration of the transaxle case. A modification has now been implemented on automatic transaxles with the following serial numbers:". But it seems the modification continues and the same problem potentially is still there.

I think I must have this problem described in the tsb thanks for sharing that I thought it was the increased viscosity of the atf

 

[sinistriel@]

You’re in Japan and things could be different. In the US MNAO (Mazda North American Operations) have never approved their dealers who can use an “after-market” ATF cooler adapter to hook up a commercial ATF flush machine to change the ATF. Any promise of an ATF “flush” service on CX-5 I’d ask to see the special ATF cooler adapter designed only for Mazda’s SkyActiv-Drive AT.

BG makes an excellent adapter specifically for the Skyactiv that works great with their machine. This is what it looks like and what we use when someone wants a full exchange.

 

[yrwei52]

I think I must have this problem described in the tsb thanks for sharing that I thought it was the increased viscosity of the atf

My guess is your use of Valvoline MaxLife ATF has accelerated the front input bearing wear, hence the whining noise.

Read what the transmission expert @sinistriel@ says about ATF differences.

Mazda ATF-A7 Trans Fluid

A fit-everything multi-purpose fluid simply can’t meet all different specs designed by each car manufacture, period.

 

[Lazy2.5]

All of them do that.

All of them whine? Not true.

There is a difference between the normal whine at speed and one that occurs at low speed. If you have low speed transmission noises, that is more concerning.

Any type of transmission whine is concerning!

 

[cx5_2014]

All of them whine? Not true.

Any type of transmission whine is concerning!

It definitely is concerning but not much I can do about it as far as I know.

 

[sinistriel@]

There are two whines that can happen with the Sky. There is a normal whine that you'll hear if you're running it on the rack and is inherent to any transaxle that uses a counter gear setup like we have. There are four gears that transfer the power to the ring gear and they will whine. Some are loud enough you'll hear it outside the vehicle and I have heard it on many Skys including my own.

The other whine which is not normal which is the above referenced TSB has to do with the center bearing in the case that supports the geartrain. It starts to rotate in the case and the surface hardening fails. It makes a lot of metal and makes a distinctive noise that follows vehicle speed as it spins at transmission output speed. The failure was much more prevalent in the earlier models 14-16, about half of those we have remanufactured we have had to either replace the case or have it machined to accept a replacement bearing. We have had one 18 CX-5 we did that had the bearing spin but none of the other. The case itself is slightly redesigned to hold it better. 1st pic is the bearing in a new case, 2nd is what they look like when the hardening come apart.

 

[eggsalad]

Looks like the TSB only applies to cars still under warranty. My warranty is long gone ('17 model) so I guess I'll wait and buy a new transmission when mine dies (sigh).

edit: oh never mind

DESCRIPTION
Some customers may complain of a whining noise from the automatic transaxle when driving at 10 mph and above. The noise:
 Depends on the vehicle’s speed only (the more speed, the more noise)
 Occurs with all types of driving (acceleration, deceleration, steady speed)
 Does not depend on rpm, gear, or ATF temperature
----
My transmission whine only occurs in 3rd gear

 

[yrwei52]

There are two whines that can happen with the Sky. There is a normal whine that you'll hear if you're running it on the rack and is inherent to any transaxle that uses a counter gear setup like we have. There are four gears that transfer the power to the ring gear and they will whine. Some are loud enough you'll hear it outside the vehicle and I have heard it on many Skys including my own.

The other whine which is not normal which is the above referenced TSB has to do with the center bearing in the case that supports the geartrain. It starts to rotate in the case and the surface hardening fails. It makes a lot of metal and makes a distinctive noise that follows vehicle speed as it spins at transmission output speed. The failure was much more prevalent in the earlier models 14-16, about half of those we have remanufactured we have had to either replace the case or have it machined to accept a replacement bearing. We have had one 18 CX-5 we did that had the bearing spin but none of the other. The case itself is slightly redesigned to hold it better. 1st pic is the bearing in a new case, 2nd is what they look like when the hardening come apart.

Thanks for the detailed explanation as usual!

 

[sinistriel@]

Looks like the TSB only applies to cars still under warranty. My warranty is long gone ('17 model) so I guess I'll wait and buy a new transmission when mine dies (sigh).

edit: oh never mind

DESCRIPTION
Some customers may complain of a whining noise from the automatic transaxle when driving at 10 mph and above. The noise:
 Depends on the vehicle’s speed only (the more speed, the more noise)
 Occurs with all types of driving (acceleration, deceleration, steady speed)
 Does not depend on rpm, gear, or ATF temperature
----
My transmission whine only occurs in 3rd gear

That would be very interesting to have the noise only in 3rd, every bearing inside the unit is already in use in every other gear. Without hearing the noise or tearing the unit down it would be hard to find the culprit. The rearmost planet called the reduction planet is used as an input to transfer power in Reverse, 3rd and 5th so if it was a bearing related to that it should be making noise at other times. The sun gear is the input for the planetary the planets are the output and the R-3-5 clutch brakes the ring gear to the case to effect power transfer. You might have a thrust bearing starting to make noise and the delivered torque is still high enough in 3rd that is causing a noise that goes away afterwards.

 

[eggsalad]

That would be very interesting to have the noise only in 3rd, every bearing inside the unit is already in use in every other gear. Without hearing the noise or tearing the unit down it would be hard to find the culprit. The rearmost planet called the reduction planet is used as an input to transfer power in Reverse, 3rd and 5th so if it was a bearing related to that it should be making noise at other times. The sun gear is the input for the planetary the planets are the output and the R-3-5 clutch brakes the ring gear to the case to effect power transfer. You might have a thrust bearing starting to make noise and the delivered torque is still high enough in 3rd that is causing a noise that goes away afterwards.

Thanks for the insight; your explanation makes sense to me and is easily understandable. To me, it sounds like the kind of noise that might grenade the transmission next week, but also could keep going for the next 10 years. What would be your recommended course of action?

 

[sinistriel@]

Thanks for the insight; your explanation makes sense to me and is easily understandable. To me, it sounds like the kind of noise that might grenade the transmission next week, but also could keep going for the next 10 years. What would be your recommended course of action?

Its hard to say, we've had bearing noises like you say go for a long time, and others let loose. If the noise is in fact coming from the transmission you have a few options, get inside the unit and overhaul, replace the unit or just ride it out, it may go for a long time.

 

[TheMAN]

You’re in Japan and things could be different. In the US MNAO (Mazda North American Operations) have never approved their dealers who can use an “after-market” ATF cooler adapter to hook up a commercial ATF flush machine to change the ATF. Any promise of an ATF “flush” service on CX-5 I’d ask to see the special ATF cooler adapter designed only for Mazda’s SkyActiv-Drive AT.

IF I was in japan, there will be no difference in what mazda approves, except maintenance intervals will be even more frequent due to what the book says, and I will be out trying to get antoine drunk all the time

where did I say mazda approved flushing? you're reading something phantom that was never said

but you can either be obtuse and stick 100% to what the book says, or think for yourself and take small educated risks in all approaches in life... I chose the latter and reaped successes from these choices for many years

the adapter OUR dealer uses is designed specifically for the skyactiv transmission... it's not a "universal" adapter

Valvoline MaxLlife ATF for Mazda’s SkyActiv-Drive transmission? No, I won’t use it. “Multi-purpose” fluids serve me no good unless I have no choice. I’d use only OEM ATF FZ or A7 (for newer MYs), or at least any name brand ATF with “FZ” or “A7” spec.

I would be very cautious about substituting a different fluid when you change it. Especially you have to mix a half of the fluid like the AT unless you can flush it.

you can stick to the OEM barely semi-synthetic ATF-FZ and it'll be very safe with 30k drain and fills, or you can get unapproved but formulated to meet and exceed mazda's specs ravenol full synthetic ATF-FZ flushed into the transmssion like I did and be assured that it runs better than the OEM fluid

 

[TheMAN]

I read somewhere that max life was good for fz so I used it. I think the viscosity is thicker on the max life which is why I hear a slight whine from the trans while driving but so far I've put 46k on since I did my 3x drain and fill with Valvoline. If I were to do it over I'd use Mazda atf fz

you used the wrong fluid for your car and you're wondering why it's making a "slight whine"?