Does CX-5 always start in AWD?

[Chris_Top_Her]

It's hard to say. As many times I've wot redline shift form a stop (higher rpm limit too)my tuned and modded awd in the rain, and had my wheels off the ground and all spinning at idle, I doubt the car doesn't start in awd..

 

[MikeM.]

It's hard to say. As many times I've wot redline shift form a stop (higher rpm limit too)my tuned and modded awd in the rain, and had my wheels off the ground and all spinning at idle, I doubt the car doesn't start in awd..

Throttle input has a lot to do with how much torque is transferred to the rear. So, yes, if you use a heavy right foot, the AWD will generally kick in seamlessly. And the wheels spinning off the ground at idle sounds like normal wet clutch drag.

 

[mazdadude]

From Mazda's own press release...

"Mazda’s Active Torque Split all-wheel drive system. The all-wheel drive system achieves a fine balance between sporty control and handling stability on snowy or wet surfaces, or under other challenging road conditions, that makes it particularly enjoyable to drive. Power and torque are effectively transferred to the road surface for maximum efficiency and performance.The system uses real-time input data on steering angle, yaw rate, lateral G force and engine status to determine road surface and driving conditions. The active torque coupling mounted in front of the rear differential is electronically controlled accordingly, adjusting front/rear wheel torque distribution between 100:0 and 50:50 to deliver optimum drive power to each wheel. The result is powerful acceleration and positive handling regardless of constantly changing road conditions, as well as the ability to fully balance the car in a turn by deft use of the accelerator pedal."

I notice that Mazda is careful NOT to use any words like "OFF ROAD" or "Dirt, Mud, Sand, Gravel"

Attached below is a short video that explains the I-ACTIV AWD system.

 

[russiankid]

Interesting... I have a '00 Wrangler 5-speed with the 4.0L..... a littler over 100K miles. Only issue in the 7 or 8 years I have had it is replacing the water pump.

I know for a fact that the Cherokee's had bad castings. The material on cylinder 4 IRRC was thin, so overtime, regardless if overheated or not, would crack and cause oil and water to mix. When I was in the market for a Cherokee I read a lot into it. The 02' and newer Wranglers had a revised head that fixed the issue. I believe the Grand Cherokee still used the poorly casted head up until 2002, but the Sport's stopped in late 01' and switched to the new revised head that was used in the Wrangler.

 

[MikeM.]

Great video explaining the iActive AWD installed in both the CX-3 and CX-5.

One statement in the video explains a key feature of the AWD that gives it such good sensitivity on glare ice, one of the most dangerous conditions encountered in winter driving because it can appear suddenly when traffic is moving at unsafe speeds. It says it is always providing just enough rear wheel torque to take the slack out of the system. Never mind that this contradicts their statement that it varies the torque supplied to the rear from 0-50%. The statement in the video means the rear wheels, driveshaft and differential gears are not being pulled along by the front wheels but are very lightly loaded by the turning of the propeller shaft.

At low throttle settings and very gentle accelerations this is probably achieved with the fluid friction in the wet clutch. As the system predicts the need for more RWD (for example by depressing the accelerator further) it engages the AWD clutch and drives the rear wheels harder. That's why it's considered pro-active. The reactive part is used as a back-up plan. If it senses the front wheels turning faster than the rear wheels it knows it has underestimated the torque needs of the rear wheels and increases it instantly.

It's a given that Mazda is always fine-tuning the software and parameters of both the pro-active and the reactive functioning of the AWD. They may update it to give better AWD climbing ability under certain parameters or an update could be used to make the system more sensitive under very slippery conditions, or to reduce drag and increase mpg or simply to reduce the wear rate of the AWD clutch under certain conditions. My point is, the AWD behavior is not set in stone and it's likely that different model years, different engines and even different trim levels have different AWD software versions to adjust for fore/aft weight balance differences, tire differences, etc. as well as improvements over time.

I know my 2013 2.0L works very well under some pretty demanding snow/ice conditions that it has seen over the last 3 1/2 years. I know my AWD software has never been updated unless the dealer snuck an update in in the first six months without telling me.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

CORRECTION: Ambient temperature is listed.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123850161-Misc-CX-5-AWD-technical-info

Of course there is the video referenced in another thread a while back showing sensors used.

 

[MikeM.]

I notice that Mazda is careful NOT to use any words like "OFF ROAD" or "Dirt, Mud, Sand, Gravel"

Off-road capability is misunderstood and over-rated. Most backcountry driving is on roads, albeit poor ones. Almost no one goes true off-reading unless it's just "to see what she'll do". But if true off-roading is your thing, just pick up something like this:

https://youtu.be/2peMyUxPh-M

And realize you still might not make it to the top of the hill if there isn't a road. And be prepared to open your wallet to replace broken components. 4 wheeled vehicles are simply not very capable unless there is some kind of road. And that is where legs and pack animals come in handy.

 

[4G63T]

There you have it, the video in post #226 tells us that the cx-5 always starts in AWD. Whether if its lightly loaded or not, any amount of load greater than zero = AWD .

 

[Unobtanium]

Great video explaining the iActive AWD installed in both the CX-3 and CX-5.

One statement in the video explains a key feature of the AWD that gives it such good sensitivity on glare ice, one of the most dangerous conditions encountered in winter driving because it can appear suddenly when traffic is moving at unsafe speeds. It says it is always providing just enough rear wheel torque to take the slack out of the system. Never mind that this contradicts their statement that it varies the torque supplied to the rear from 0-50%. The statement in the video means the rear wheels, driveshaft and differential gears are not being pulled along by the front wheels but are very lightly loaded by the turning of the propeller shaft.

At low throttle settings and very gentle accelerations this is probably achieved with the fluid friction in the wet clutch. As the system predicts the need for more RWD (for example by depressing the accelerator further) it engages the AWD clutch and drives the rear wheels harder. That's why it's considered pro-active. The reactive part is used as a back-up plan. If it senses the front wheels turning faster than the rear wheels it knows it has underestimated the torque needs of the rear wheels and increases it instantly.

It's a given that Mazda is always fine-tuning the software and parameters of both the pro-active and the reactive functioning of the AWD. They may update it to give better AWD climbing ability under certain parameters or an update could be used to make the system more sensitive under very slippery conditions, or to reduce drag and increase mpg or simply to reduce the wear rate of the AWD clutch under certain conditions. My point is, the AWD behavior is not set in stone and it's likely that different model years, different engines and even different trim levels have different AWD software versions to adjust for fore/aft weight balance differences, tire differences, etc. as well as improvements over time.

I know my 2013 2.0L works very well under some pretty demanding snow/ice conditions that it has seen over the last 3 1/2 years. I know my AWD software has never been updated unless the dealer snuck an update in in the first six months without telling me.

Are you sure this is a CX-5 thing, or is it just the new CX3? Sounds like some legit engineering, if it covers all. Glad to read that.

 

[MikeM.]

There you have it, the video in post #226 tells us that the cx-5 always starts in AWD. Whether if its lightly loaded or not, any amount of load greater than zero = AWD .

I guess it depends on your definition of "starting in AWD". If your definition is just enough torque to keep the rear wheels from dragging, then yes. But in this scenario all the driving force (acceleration) is coming from the front wheels. There would not be torque applied by the tread to the pavement if, as the video claims, there is just enough torque applied to take the slack out of the system.

I'm not sure why such details matter, if you step on it hard, the rear wheels are actually adding to the forward thrust, throttle lightly, no thrust from rear.

 

[Unobtanium]

Off-road capability is misunderstood and over-rated. Most backcountry driving is on roads, albeit poor ones. Almost no one goes true off-reading unless it's just "to see what she'll do". But if true off-roading is your thing, just pick up something like this:

https://youtu.be/2peMyUxPh-M

And realize you still might not make it to the top of the hill if there isn't a road. And be prepared to open your wallet to replace broken components. 4 wheeled vehicles are simply not very capable unless there is some kind of road. And that is where legs and pack animals come in handy.

Exactly.

However, it irritates me how Mazda is trying to make these appear "rugged" in an "offroad" sense while still maintaining 0% liability for offroad use of nearly any kind aside from a graded dirt drive-way.

 

[MikeM.]

Are you sure this is a CX-5 thing, or is it just the new CX3? Sounds like some legit engineering, if it covers all. Glad to read that.

If you watch the beginning of the video you will see it covers both the CX-3 and CX-5. They have exactly the same style AWD although the tuning parameters will be a little different based on vehicle differences. The CX-3 probably has slightly smaller drive axels, propeller shaft and AWD clutch but they work the same way.

 

[MikeM.]

However, it irritates me how Mazda is trying to make these appear "rugged" in an "offroad" sense while still maintaining 0% liability for offroad use of nearly any kind aside from a graded dirt drive-way.

Please explain how Mazda is "trying to make these appear rugged in an off road sense". I've used mine on plenty of rugged roads but I've never taken it true off-roading (and I've never seen Mazda suggest that either the CX-3 or CX-5 is an off-road machine). You would have to be a pretty ignorant consumer to think they were off-road machines and Mazda has done NOTHING to suggest they are.

You just made that up out of thin air.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Has anyone managed to do this in their AWD CX-5 yet?

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

I have a feeling they have vehicle power dialed in for more RWD power with this.

http://www.subaru-global.com/tec_dccd.html

 

[davesxx01]

LOL,,, OK all, I posted a few pages back about my doubts of true AWD from a start,,,,,,, Because yes, I get slight front wheel spin at a full throttle launch on a ice cold but dry street. I will take a video of the slight spin later but,,,,,
after watching the video posted above I thought I would try to trick the system into "thinking" I was on snow or ice! Outside temp was 22* for this test, same spot where I get wheel spin at launch, this time I turned on my wipers on low speed as, per the video, this system senses outside temp and whether or not my wipers are on.

WOW!! zero wheel spin!!!!

The system seems to know that I need more traction!!

If and when I ever get to go off road I will set my wipers on!!

So, the clutch pack may be lightly loaded as part of its predictive programming when starting off but I'm thinking it's more loaded when it thinks I'm driving on snow/ice!

Thanks anchorman and mazdadude for your helpful links!!

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

Interesting.... I had thought about doing that as well. I wonder how this factors in with the Automatic Wipers? Entirely variable or at only certain wiper intervals?

EDIT: I wouldn't think rear wiper going would have the same effect but worth testing out. I'll have to look at electrical schematics.

 

[davesxx01]

Also, in viewing kedis82ZE8's video above and link that was posted, albeit that video is about the CX-3, it clearly states that older CX-5's used a different system and the new '16's now use additional sensor input's? Am I reading this correctly? Meaning '16 CX line has a smarter, more predictive, AWD system that say the '14 CX-5?

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

I think they were referring to system in something like the CX-9 or CX-7.

In my FSM it seems to list all sensors in that video for my '15. Just my opinion but more likely programming changes if anything...nothing different on hardware/sensor front.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123850161-Misc-CX-5-AWD-technical-info

 

[davesxx01]

Interesting.... I had thought about doing that as well. I wonder how this factors in with the Automatic Wipers? Entirely variable or at only certain wiper intervals?

EDIT: I wouldn't think rear wiper going would have the same effect but worth testing out. I'll have to look at electrical schematics.

That would be great to know! Thank you for taking the time to research this!! Per your video all that is needed is to know that wipers are "on", it wasn't clear if that meant intermittent or not.
I see that you have a '15,,,, wondering if dealers can update the ECU to recognize the additional inputs and therefore be "more predictive"!