"Mazda5 to be phased out for U.S. in 2015." - Automotive News

[socialcarpet]

Here you go buddy, come out from underneath your rock sometime and educate yourself. Chances are you may have already owned or driven an mexican built vehicle without you knowing it.

Read this, especially the "History" section and the "Companies with official representation brands in Mexico" section.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Mexico

Yup, I have. I had a Volkswagen Jetta that was built in Mexico.

The driver side door kept LOOSENING itself because the bolts holding it on where somehow not attached properly. I had to keep tightening it back on with a socket wrench.

That was my first and last Mexican car. Trust me, I pay close attention to where my cars are built and where the parts are sourced. I even have the VIN codes memorized. No more VIN's beginning in "3" for me, if I can help it. "J","W" and "Y" are good to go. "1" and "2" aren't desirable, but they're acceptable I guess.

But I'm not opposed to anyone else buying cars made elsewhere I just hope we don't reach a point where you have to spend $35-40k or more to get a car that's built in Japan or German instead of Mexico or South America or even the deep South. Believe me, A LOT of people feel the same way I do, they just aren't willing to come out and say it because it's politically incorrect. When Toyota starts building Lexus models in Mexico and their quality and reliability doesn't skip a beat, I could begin to change my opinion, but until then, I'd prefer a car built in Japan. Again, there's also a novelty factor to this. It just seems to me a Japanese car ought to be built in Japan. A German car ought to be built in Germany and there should be international labor laws that prevent manufacturers from exporting skilled labor jobs from their own countries, damaging their home economies to make a quick buck by exploiting cheap labor and lax environmental regulation. I'd like to think Mazda had a bit more integrity than the others, at least until recently when I guess their hand was probably forced by greedy shareholders. It's a shame.

If you disagree with me on the variations in the quality of labor, there are plenty of other reasons to oppose this trend. Mexican auto workers make less than half of the U.S. minimum wage and they have virtually no collective bargaining rights. That is unethical and immoral. Every $3/hr job in Mexico is one last decent paying middle class job in Japan or the United States or Europe. Not good. Who knew just how right Ross Perot was about NAFTA. (boom02)

 

[socialcarpet]

I am a long time multiple Lexus owner. Never had an issue with my SC/LS or the CT.

RX330/RX350 is done in a factory in Cambridge-Ontario, Canada.


P.S. Though the Mazda5 is built in Japan, it has had a decent amount of problems, compared to other Japanese built cars. My Ohio build Hondas, have been bulletproof.

Honda has been building cars in Ohio for 30 years and Ohio isn't Mexico.

You're right about the Mazda 5 though, but I'll still take it over a car built in Mexico. It's not just about quality/reliability. Mitsubishi builds cars in Japan and their reliability and quality isn't always top notch. I know being built in Japan isn't a guarantee of perfect quality, but it does improve the odds. The better laptops used to be built in Japan and since almost all production has moved to China there has been a measurable decline in quality. Like I said, it's about novelty. I want my Japanese thing to be from Japan damn it. Champagne that comes from the Champagne region in France. Champagne from Mexico is called "sparkling wine" and I don't want any, thanks.

 

[socialcarpet]

Acura MDX is built in Alabama now. IIRC they used to be built in Canada.

http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2013/05/post_16.html

Again, that isn't Mexico. I wouldn't be thrilled with Alabama, but it's better than Mexico.

I know Mercedes and BMW both built cars in the south now. To me that is unacceptable given the prices they ask. But I'm sure it's just a stepping stone...on their way to Mexico and China. Test the waters, see if they can get their well-heeled customers to accept a $55,000 "German" SUV made in Alabama. Once people start to forget about it, then you can pack up and move it to Mexico and pay $4 an hour so you can hire away the "best' workers from the $3 hour Mazda factory across the street. It's a race to the bottom.

 

[Davicho]

Yup, I have. I had a Volkswagen Jetta that was built in Mexico.

The driver side door kept LOOSENING itself because the bolts holding it on where somehow not attached properly. I had to keep tightening it back on with a socket wrench.

That was my first and last Mexican car. Trust me, I pay close attention to where my cars are built and where the parts are sourced. I even have the VIN codes memorized. No more VIN's beginning in "3" for me, if I can help it. "J","W" and "Y" are good to go. "1" and "2" aren't desirable, but they're acceptable I guess.

But I'm not opposed to anyone else buying cars made elsewhere I just hope we don't reach a point where you have to spend $35-40k or more to get a car that's built in Japan or German instead of Mexico or South America or even the deep South. Believe me, A LOT of people feel the same way I do, they just aren't willing to come out and say it because it's politically incorrect. When Toyota starts building Lexus models in Mexico and their quality and reliability doesn't skip a beat, I could begin to change my opinion, but until then, I'd prefer a car built in Japan. Again, there's also a novelty factor to this. It just seems to me a Japanese car ought to be built in Japan. A German car ought to be built in Germany and there should be international labor laws that prevent manufacturers from exporting skilled labor jobs from their own countries, damaging their home economies to make a quick buck by exploiting cheap labor and lax environmental regulation. I'd like to think Mazda had a bit more integrity than the others, at least until recently when I guess their hand was probably forced by greedy shareholders. It's a shame.

If you disagree with me on the variations in the quality of labor, there are plenty of other reasons to oppose this trend. Mexican auto workers make less than half of the U.S. minimum wage and they have virtually no collective bargaining rights. That is unethical and immoral. Every $3/hr job in Mexico is one last decent paying middle class job in Japan or the United States or Europe. Not good. Who knew just how right Ross Perot was about NAFTA. (boom02)

I'm officially done talking to you. It's clear where and how your closed mind is and works. Like I said before, whatever let's you sleep at night buddy. Great way to start your membership here in the forum! Good luck to you and I hope you are never forced to buy or use anything that's made in Mexico or by "uneducated drunk Mexicans" (headshake

 

[Silentnoise713]

I find the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe siblings an interesting story about brand perception (and country of HQ)
Both were designed and built side-by-side at NUMMI, but the Matrix is praised (somewhat; after all it is just a Corolla-bodied wagonish thing) and the Vibe was reported to be falling apart and soon after purchase couldn't be traded straight-across for a box of crackers.

I haven't seen this. One thing I do remember was that the Vibe was the sole Pontiac with a "CR Recommend" approval for years running

 

[Silentnoise713]

Silent, Mexico has been manufacturing cars for a while now. VW has been manufacturing cars there for at least close to 20 years....Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, Nissan at least 10 years and now Mazda, I don't know for sure about Toyota. Point is, these manufacturers in Mexico are also held accountable to the same build quality and standards. Machinery and parts are brought in from their original vendors (probably China or Japan) to be assembled there. The only reason car manufacturers are turning to Mexico for building plants is purely to reduce cost from labor, and logistic costs for importing. In fact, most people working there will do their best and maintain top notch work ethics because these car manufacturers still pay top notch salaries (even if its way cheaper for the car manufacturers themselves) compared to the Mexican national average for salaries. Now if you don't want a Mexican built car then don't go out and buy one, but don't go making stupid ignorant remarks and stereotype Mexican workers (as socialcarpet did) about not having integrity in their jobs and going drinking after work, when even here in our US of A we have idiots getting high while AT WORK. Anyway, like I said, I don't really want to get into this any more then I already did but I just don't care nor can be bothered with ignorance.

Well you certainly put a lot of words in my mouth. I sense in your response that the Mexico topic seem to hit a cord with you. Then I recall and looked up an old thread on our significant other and I can understand why.

Just know that all our our judgement is clouded and things are not as clear cut as we think (me too). To add, China and Russia have been making cars for a long time as well and even have their own national brands. I would not buy Russian and would avoid Chinese <- being more open to the latter as time passes by (where they are getting better). It wasn't too long ago Hyundias were a joke. It's natural progression and Mexico is no exception to the rule. First world countries will ALWAYS (ok, almost) make a better equivalent product than the 3rd world standard. Education, culture, and ethics pays a big part.

 

[Silentnoise713]

^^^^

Ironically many members here bash the general public for their "ignorance of the Mazda5" while being ignorant themselves.

I am the only non jewish, non same color race in my work. Last 11 years, its been like that.

You should see the stereotypes I have to deal with in and out of work, in a cosmopolitan city like LA.

Just ignore the idiots, best advise I gotten in my life.

The thing about stereotypes is that there is some truth in it. (Flame suite on)

Good advice on the ignoring it part.

 

[Silentnoise713]

Personally I don't know about cars made in mexico/canada/china, as I don't own any.

In the future, all cars might be made in China, like the apple products, who knows.

My experience with mexico made cars are just from reading the internet. And most of what we read on the internet is true, per Al Gore.

Now give me a VIper! I don't care if hte employees smoke weed...just look at that thing!

probably not made IN China but likely a Chinese connection. Guess who's investing/buying infrastructure in the emerging markets.

Reading the internet is like reading the newspaper. Just bc the National Inquiry says so does not make it true. It's not where you read it from, it is the source that matters. I hope no one takes commentary from an Internet FORUM seriously .

I'love take a Weed'per anyday!


See what happens when Mazda cancels the Mz5. Entertainment!

 

[90210]

But we barely know each other yet.......


.

Its LA. Random tripod holders are all the rage

 

[90210]

Honda has been building cars in Ohio for 30 years and Ohio isn't Mexico.

You're right about the Mazda 5 though, but I'll still take it over a car built in Mexico. It's not just about quality/reliability. Mitsubishi builds cars in Japan and their reliability and quality isn't always top notch. I know being built in Japan isn't a guarantee of perfect quality, but it does improve the odds. The better laptops used to be built in Japan and since almost all production has moved to China there has been a measurable decline in quality. Like I said, it's about novelty. I want my Japanese thing to be from Japan damn it. Champagne that comes from the Champagne region in France. Champagne from Mexico is called "sparkling wine" and I don't want any, thanks.

You completely ignored my only point in the post, which was to REFUTE your Lexus built in Japan statement

 

[90210]

Again, that isn't Mexico. I wouldn't be thrilled with Alabama, but it's better than Mexico.

I know Mercedes and BMW both built cars in the south now. To me that is unacceptable given the prices they ask. But I'm sure it's just a stepping stone...on their way to Mexico and China. Test the waters, see if they can get their well-heeled customers to accept a $55,000 "German" SUV made in Alabama. Once people start to forget about it, then you can pack up and move it to Mexico and pay $4 an hour so you can hire away the "best' workers from the $3 hour Mazda factory across the street. It's a race to the bottom.

People have been buying BMW/Merc made in Alabama for QUITE A WHILE

My co workers are driving $100k, X6M delivered fresh from S. Carolina

 

[90210]

The thing about stereotypes is that there is some truth in it. (Flame suite on)

Good advice on the ignoring it part.

That most Mazda 5 owners are poor people who can't afford a Oddy/Sienna

 

[Silentnoise713]

Mattresses, sheets and quilts are fine. Precision machinery, not so much. Very well might just be a placebo effect. or maybe I just like the novelty of a Japanese car that's built in Japan and a German car that's built in Germany and so forth. I completely accept that it may all be in my imagination, but I'm confident there are cultural differences that do manifest themselves in the quality of the final product. Right or wrong, I just have more confidence in the Japanese and Germans to build precision machines with uncompromising quality and accuracy than anyone else. That may be politically incorrect, but I think it's naive to pretend that what country a car is built in has so effect at all on how well it's built. Culturally, the Japanese and the Germans are known for being relentlessly perfectionistic. The Japanese take it a step further though, they have kaizen (continuous improvement) and the humility to admit mistakes or accept there is a better way of doing something and to adapt. The Germans build outstandingly engineered (over-engineered) stuff, but they think their s*** doesn't stink, so when they find a problem with a car, they tend to declare it's user error first because their engineering is infallible. That, I believe, is one of the reasons Japan builds the most reliable cars in the world.

The role that culture plays in this is a sensitive subject and most people don't want to admit it for the risk of hurting feelings, but it's not a mistake that these car companies are selective about when they use factories in these places. Notice that Honda doesn't build Acura models in Mexico? They built them in Japan. Toyota builds Lexus models in Japan, not Mexico, not Brazil. If the quality is the same in Mexico, why not move all their production to the place where the labor is the cheapest? In my mind, there is only one logical answer to that question. They KNOW they cannot guarantee the product will not meet the same high standards consistently. With a Fit, apparently it's a chance Honda is willing to take so they can make an extra couple of hundred bucks off of each car, but they are smart enough not to risk their luxury division to this little labor experiment. So.. yeah if I buy a Japanese car, I'd much rather it be built in Japan, and I won't apologize for it.

Japan was junk until this AMERICAN change their whole country. One of Japan's highest most prestigious honor is the Demming award!, not some Japanese person award. Japan put Demming's ideology to practice. Stupid thing is that Demming approach Detroit and was rejected. He didn't get recognition till near or after his death. Look him up, a GREAT man of our time. Digging up old memories from my operations professor.
Http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

 

[DKaz]

That most Mazda 5 owners are poor people who can't afford a Oddy/Sienna

I'd like to think of it as having better sense than buying a base model Dodge Grand Caravan.

I have a 2000 Odyssey now there in addition to my Mazda 3.

 

[90210]

I'd like to think of it as having better sense than buying a base model Dodge Grand Caravan.

I have a 2000 Odyssey now there in addition to my Mazda 3.

It was a joke....

 

[90210]

Japan was junk until this AMERICAN change their whole country. One of Japan's highest most prestigious honor is the Demming award!, not some Japanese person award. Japan put Demming's ideology to practice. Stupid thing is that Demming approach Detroit and was rejected. He didn't get recognition till near or after his death. Look him up, a GREAT man of our time. Digging up old memories from my operations professor.
Http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Knowledge is kryptonite for the ignorant

 

[Davicho]

Well you certainly put a lot of words in my mouth. I sense in your response that the Mexico topic seem to hit a cord with you. Then I recall and looked up an old thread on our significant other and I can understand why.

Just know that all our our judgement is clouded and things are not as clear cut as we think (me too). To add, China and Russia have been making cars for a long time as well and even have their own national brands. I would not buy Russian and would avoid Chinese <- being more open to the latter as time passes by (where they are getting better). It wasn't too long ago Hyundias were a joke. It's natural progression and Mexico is no exception to the rule. First world countries will ALWAYS (ok, almost) make a better equivalent product than the 3rd world standard. Education, culture, and ethics pays a big part.

Silent that bolded part of my previous statement wasn't directed to you, my apologies. It was directed to our noob friend socialcarpet. I guess my drunken Mexican ass can't write either. I must have been made in Mexico that's why I'm flawed...oh right I was. LOL!

 

[90210]

Silent that bolded part of my previous statement wasn't directed to you, my apologies. It was directed to our noob friend socialcarpet. I guess my drunken Mexican ass can't write either. I must have been made in Mexico that's why I'm flawed...oh right I was. LOL!

Stop writing and go drink beers. Don't all messicans just drink beer all day?

And how the heck do you have a computer? Are you at a public library?

 

[tuanies]

So posting on the forum is what you do while waiting at home depot for work...

 

[Davicho]

Stop writing and go drink beers. Don't all messicans just drink beer all day?

And how the heck do you have a computer? Are you at a public library?

LMFAO! Epic!