Tmic

[desertmike680]

Are the benefits of buying an after market TMIC far succeed the stock? I read that the stock TMIC piping bottle necks the air flow, thus an after market one like the Street Unit has shown huge increases in airflow and HP. I think this thread answers itself, but I'm curious though.

Oh yeah, the cheapest one I found is 565......why so damn expensive?

 

[KrGsMrNKusinagi]

Are the benefits of buying an after market TMIC far succeed the stock? I read that the stock TMIC piping bottle necks the air flow, thus an after market one like the Street Unit has shown huge increases in airflow and HP. I think this thread answers itself, but I'm curious though.

Oh yeah, the cheapest one I found is 565......why so damn expensive?

Thats not really that expensive.. The Autoexe Top mount is like 1300 plus so technically I think its a steal at 550 plus for another intercooler thats probably just as good or better.

I think you will maintain cooler temperatures for longer therefore make more power overall

 

[sharky]

Or you could go for a FMIC.

 

[desertmike680]

Doesnt the FMIC promote turbo lag with the longer piping?

 

[Blendercloud]

The additional piping leaves more volume to pressurize. So in a sense, yea you will see some additional lag.

 

[desertmike680]

If I decide to keep my stock TMIC for a bit and swap out the 2 hoses to and from the TMIC to the turbo (the ones from Street unit), what kind of a difference would would replacing those hoses make?

 

[Blendercloud]

If I decide to keep my stock TMIC for a bit and swap out the 2 hoses to and from the TMIC to the turbo (the ones from Street unit), what kind of a difference would would replacing those hoses make?

Next to no difference at all. They are really pretty much only cosmetic and are a pretty big marketing gimmic.

The people who sell them try to play them off as some sort of performance enhancement because they "dissipate heat better than rubber hoses." However, with the volume of hot air passing through them at the velocities that it does, the hose would have to be city blocks long in order to have any effect. They do look nice though!

 

[SMOKEYS36SHOP]

chris (blendercloud) is 100% right in what he said..the rear hose from the turbo to the tmic is so small the thicker hoses isnt going to make a difference....in fact for the longest time i used the stock hoses with my street unit tmic due to a fitment issue (which has now been fixed) and when i put the hoses back on it made no difference at all.

if your trying to figure out what to do with your intercooler you can upgrade your tmic or go front mount...and i believe that a fmic will create some lag with the ko4 stock turbo...but in the long run you will not experience heat soak and during the summers your car wont feel like it is falling on its face. last month we had a good hot 90 degree day and my car just didnt feel as powerful as it would on a 60 or 70 degree day. so i am now looking into a meth injection kit to better cool down my system during the summers so my car will run better with my upgraded tmic.

in the end anything is better than the stock tmic. the intercooler is only an inch thick and heat soaks very fast. it really comes down to what your goals are for your car. do you want a sleeper car with a hidden intercooler or not...and do you plan on investing tons of money into the car? in my opinion if i were to go with a front mount i would have to upgrade my turbo...but since i am happy with the stock ko4 i decided to go with a top mount and maybe meth injection in the near future.

hope this helps ...also when it comes to prices you can do a front mount now a days for the same price as a ets or su top mount...but look to spend over $500 for a new system

 

[MATX]

I have an ETS TMIC and you can feel the power, If you custom make your FMIC you could prob get it about the same price

 

[banzairx7]

but in the long run you will not experience heat soak and during the summers your car wont feel like it is falling on its face. last month we had a good hot 90 degree day and my car just didnt feel as powerful as it would on a 60 or 70 degree day. so i am now looking into a meth injection kit to better cool down my system during the summers so my car will run better with my upgraded tmic.

I have meth. injection on my basically stock car. It really makes the car a much more consistent performer. Intake temps are WAY lower. I see boost air temps in the 80's when it's 90 degrees outside. No top or front mount will ever get you below ambient like methanol does.

 

[batou079]

is there actual recorded gains for the upgradeed ETS TMIC posted anywhere?
im curious on wha ta 500-600 dollar mod will get me... im getting to the point that EVERY bolt-on has to give me practical dollar vs performance for my tight budget lately...

 

[Blendercloud]

is there actual recorded gains for the upgradeed ETS TMIC posted anywhere?
im curious on wha ta 500-600 dollar mod will get me... im getting to the point that EVERY bolt-on has to give me practical dollar vs performance for my tight budget lately...

I found that it isn't really about what the ETS TMIC 'gives' you as much as it is about what the ETS TMIC lets you do.

The more you compress air, the hotter it gets. As you raise boost targets (using the AP or CP-E's device) your boosted temperatures will go up very quickly. That puts the user in a position where they have the ability to make more power, but because of the modest efficiency of the stock intercooler that user is taking a risk. The risk is that the increased boosted air temperatures (BAT's) will cause detonation due to the increased temperature in the combustion chamber. This can rob power and possibly even be fatal to the engine.

The user's options are then (list for the sake of argument, not necessarily comprehensive):
1) Leave boost levels alone (yea right!)
2) Upgraded TMIC
3) Carbon-dioxide spray over the surface of the stock intercooler
4) Water-methanol injection
5) FMIC (possibility for increased lag; may have fitment issues)

As you can see, of the items on the list the upgraded TMIC is the least intrusive which is why so many people choose to go that route.

 

[batou079]

true, it doesnt necessarily give you more raw power persay.

i should have reworded that better.
are the potential gains that the cooling of the upgraded TMIC allow you to achieve worth the price?
AKA, will the cooling from a TMIC allow me to do enough bolt-ons & tune for near 300 AWHP, SAFEFLY?!

i definitly know what cooling means for power potentials.
when i dyno'd the 3rd run @ churches they poured water on the intercooler fins, risky maybe.
But the 3rd pull netted me nearly 15hp more than i was running previously. LOL!!!

 

[mglavina]

Sub'd for info... I don't want to pull away from the OP but I've been getting pulled to an aftermarket TMIC. I didn't really like the idea of taking apart the car, moving the windshield washer tank, cutting the crash bar and getting a bit of lag. I didn't have any ideas to run the gt40r or any other big turbo upgrade . Or, I could just do a quick bolt on swap in about 10 minutes thats easily reversible in case I go for a FMIC or sell...

I'm in Canada, so it's probably not as hot as what some of you guys may experience...

SUB

 

[Blendercloud]

true, it doesnt necessarily give you more raw power persay.

i should have reworded that better.
are the potential gains that the cooling of the upgraded TMIC allow you to achieve worth the price?
AKA, will the cooling from a TMIC allow me to do enough bolt-ons & tune for near 300 AWHP, SAFEFLY?!

i definitly know what cooling means for power potentials.
when i dyno'd the 3rd run @ churches they poured water on the intercooler fins, risky maybe.
But the 3rd pull netted me nearly 15hp more than i was running previously. LOL!!!

Short answer: Yes, but get properly tuned.
Long answer: If you want to make that power safely, go with a slightly more mild tune (less timing advancement). Get yourself some water-methanol injection, but don't skimp on that kit because if the mixture doesn't atomize properly you'll be very sorry (picture a piston in pieces). "Safely" is the operative word in all of this.

Sub'd for info... I don't want to pull away from the OP but I've been getting pulled to an aftermarket TMIC. I didn't really like the idea of taking apart the car, moving the windshield washer tank, cutting the crash bar and getting a bit of lag. I didn't have any ideas to run the gt40r or any other big turbo upgrade . Or, I could just do a quick bolt on swap in about 10 minutes thats easily reversible in case I go for a FMIC or sell...

I'm in Canada, so it's probably not as hot as what some of you guys may experience...

SUB

The easy reversibility, cost/benefit, and maintaining a sleeper look is what kept me using a TMIC. I agree with your reasoning.

 

[coyfish]

Having a TMIC vs a FMIC will yield very similar dyno results. The peak efficiency of both are very similar. The main determinant for me is time. If something is to go wrong I don't have to spend 4 hours taking off the IC. Once my warranty is up ill swap to a FMIC if I don't sell my car . . . I live in FL so its a clear advantage.

Im at 300whp with my mods but its only a number. I don't even have a dp.

 

[zinger002]

I found that it isn't really about what the ETS TMIC 'gives' you as much as it is about what the ETS TMIC lets you do.

The more you compress air, the hotter it gets. As you raise boost targets (using the AP or CP-E's device) your boosted temperatures will go up very quickly. That puts the user in a position where they have the ability to make more power, but because of the modest efficiency of the stock intercooler that user is taking a risk. The risk is that the increased boosted air temperatures (BAT's) will cause detonation due to the increased temperature in the combustion chamber. This can rob power and possibly even be fatal to the engine.

The user's options are then (list for the sake of argument, not necessarily comprehensive):
1) Leave boost levels alone (yea right!)
2) Upgraded TMIC
3) Carbon-dioxide spray over the surface of the stock intercooler
4) Water-methanol injection
5) FMIC (possibility for increased lag; may have fitment issues)

As you can see, of the items on the list the upgraded TMIC is the least intrusive which is why so many people choose to go that route.

haha, 3.5 thick, 8 inch tall intercooler fit great into my car with only minor trimming of the crash bar.

 

[Eyedea23]

I am in the same boat as coyfish. I live in Vegas, and need to try and grab whatever cold air is possible. I am out of my warranty so now I'm looking into switch from my TMIC, to a FMIC. As Bender stated, the upgraded intercooler allows for lower boost temps, and from what I have seen the FMIC's give lower boost temps at the cost of some boost lag with the additional piping.

 

[PeZ3o3]

has anyone done a co2 sprayer system to their stock or aftermarket tmic? it seems with no hood scoop the tmic is pretty inefficient but a co2 system could really help and would be a reasoable price mod. im worried about too much co2 gettin sucked into the intake without a lot of engie ventalation, and would the stock map be able to adjust the A/F ratio properly for the colder denser air

 

[banzairx7]

For all of you living in hot climates methanol is the only way to go. Even the best front or top mount IC isn't going to work all that great when it's 100+ out. I'd even wager to say that a FMIC would be worse. It's getting air right off the pavement which is way over ambient.

As far as Co2 goes methanol is a much better way to go. CO2 is a lot tougher to fill for one. You have to bring a bottle somewhere versus just filling the meth jug where and when ever you need to. CO2 is a gas so even though it is spraying out icy cold there isn't a ton of mass there to absorb heat. Liquids are much better at absorbing heat, some where on the order of 17 times better. You also don't get the big octane boost and lower EGT's with CO2 like you do with a methanol/water mix. One other issue you can have with CO2 is you can pull it into the intake. It won't blow anything up but it displaces oxygen so power can go down because of it.