I know this is a Mazda6 forum, but I have the Mazda6 2.5L engine in my 2010 Ford Fusion. It has a just turned 6000 miles and is sitting in the local Ford dealership waiting for a new replacement engine. The problem started with the sound of coolant flowing through the heater core (air entering the cooling system). There were no other symptoms--no overheating, loss of coolant, etc. Only low coolant pressure. After a few trips to the dealer for cooling system purging, running tests, etc. a field engineer came and evaluated the car. The head was removed and apparently there was porosity in the block cooling passage between #4 cylinder and the outside of the block. I haven't heard of any engine problems with the 2.5 and wondered if there was anyone with a 09 or 10 Mazda6 that has had an issue like this. Thanks for your input.
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2009 2.5L I-4 Engine Issues
- Thread starter deo1929
- Start date
deo1929 - I've not heard of this but interested to hear if anyone else has. How did you hear that sound that you mention and what lead to the diagnosis? WAs this a sound you hear while driving, while at idle with the hood up? Seems so far outside the norm I'm not sure I'd know the sound if I heard it.
The sound we on the Fusion forum are calling "sloshing" or "waterfall effect" happens mostly on a cold start. Upon initial acceleration, you hear the sound of coolant flowing through the heater core. Then it can reoccur if the car idles for 30-60 seconds and the engine brought up to 2000 RPM. If driven for more than 45-60 minutes at highway speed, the sound is not noticable. I would post a picture of the offending area of the engine block, but can't seem to find a way to post it here. Suffice it to say, there are a number of 2010 Fusion owners who are concerned at this point about their engines. For those of you who are interested in the discussion, I've included the link below. Thanks again for your input.
http://www.fordfusionforum.com/index.php?/topic/3085-2010-fusion-sloshing-sound-when-first-driven/
http://www.fordfusionforum.com/index.php?/topic/3085-2010-fusion-sloshing-sound-when-first-driven/
maple_leaf
Member
- :
- Mazda 6, 4i - Manual
Nope...haven't heard a thing about it (shrug)
That sounds just like what I have going on in my Mazda6 with 2.5 liter on cold start up. Took my car to the dealer, they have no idea what I am talking about. Had my system flushed because of some brownish gunk in my over flow tank, and new thermostat installed. Sound is still there upon startup.
That sounds just like what I have going on in my Mazda6 with 2.5 liter on cold start up. Took my car to the dealer, they have no idea what I am talking about. Had my system flushed because of some brownish gunk in my over flow tank, and new thermostat installed. Sound is still there upon startup.
the brownish gunk is probably corrosion from the porous cooling passages beginning to eat away at the aluminum.
Hmmm. It seems that the Fusions in colder climates are more inclined to the problem than those in warmer climates. Check out the link in my first post if you haven't yet. There are 12 pages now of the problem and the steps taken--some successful, others not--to resolve the problem. Ford is in the process of replacing the entire engine in my 2010 Fusion after engineers had the dealer do testing and they came and evaluated the car. I hope there's not a rash of bad castings out there for both our sake and Ford/Mazda.
Hmmm. It seems that the Fusions in colder climates are more inclined to the problem than those in warmer climates. Check out the link in my first post if you haven't yet. There are 12 pages now of the problem and the steps taken--some successful, others not--to resolve the problem. Ford is in the process of replacing the entire engine in my 2010 Fusion after engineers had the dealer do testing and they came and evaluated the car. I hope there's not a rash of bad castings out there for both our sake and Ford/Mazda.
it could also be galvanic corrosion, but I don't really see how it could possibly happen within 6,000 miles unless there were absolutely *no* engine grounds.
If it's galvanic corrosion, that would happen if the coolant protection was inadequate, wouldn't it? What could cause such corrosion? A dissimilar material somewhere in the engine assembly? Could it be from being exposed to air between casting and manufacturing? With low miles, it would make sense that it happened before assembly. I'm not as versed in aluminum corrosion in engines as I am with airframe components. Any enlightenment would be appreciated.
A side note....
Correct me gang if I'm wrong, but the 2.5L I-4 has been in production since summer of 2008 since it was introduced to the 2009 Mazda6 and Ford Escape. I find it hard to believe that there's a serious problem with the design or manufacturing as it would have shown up by now. Mazda engines are pretty bulletproof...the reason I bought the Fusion.
A side note....
Correct me gang if I'm wrong, but the 2.5L I-4 has been in production since summer of 2008 since it was introduced to the 2009 Mazda6 and Ford Escape. I find it hard to believe that there's a serious problem with the design or manufacturing as it would have shown up by now. Mazda engines are pretty bulletproof...the reason I bought the Fusion.
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- 2010 Mazda CX-9 GT Dolphin Gray
Doesn't mean an issue didn't crop up...
Like all manufacturing there could have been a point where something in the casting or manufacturing process became an issue. Parts can be manufactured perfectly for a time and then faults could occur if something changed in the process. Who knows if there was retooling or a supplier change. I think those in manufacturing would agree that processes are constantly scrutinized/adjusted to gain efficiency and cost reduction as well as remove any deviations in the design that may have been there at the start of production. Luckily I opted for the 3.7L V6 ;-)
If it's galvanic corrosion, that would happen if the coolant protection was inadequate, wouldn't it? What could cause such corrosion? A dissimilar material somewhere in the engine assembly? Could it be from being exposed to air between casting and manufacturing? With low miles, it would make sense that it happened before assembly. I'm not as versed in aluminum corrosion in engines as I am with airframe components. Any enlightenment would be appreciated.
A side note....
Correct me gang if I'm wrong, but the 2.5L I-4 has been in production since summer of 2008 since it was introduced to the 2009 Mazda6 and Ford Escape. I find it hard to believe that there's a serious problem with the design or manufacturing as it would have shown up by now. Mazda engines are pretty bulletproof...the reason I bought the Fusion.
Like all manufacturing there could have been a point where something in the casting or manufacturing process became an issue. Parts can be manufactured perfectly for a time and then faults could occur if something changed in the process. Who knows if there was retooling or a supplier change. I think those in manufacturing would agree that processes are constantly scrutinized/adjusted to gain efficiency and cost reduction as well as remove any deviations in the design that may have been there at the start of production. Luckily I opted for the 3.7L V6 ;-)
galvanic corrosion is corrosion when an electrical charge is placed on a metal(not necessarly when two disimilar metals are in contact with each other, that's more similar to molecular bonding). Inadequate coolant protection(via low glycol percentage) can be a cause but insufficient grounding of the engine can Also cause an issue( more charge sustained in the engine= faster galvanic corossion). However like I said, considering the short mileage I don't see it being a likely cause.If it's galvanic corrosion, that would happen if the coolant protection was inadequate, wouldn't it? What could cause such corrosion? A dissimilar material somewhere in the engine assembly? Could it be from being exposed to air between casting and manufacturing? With low miles, it would make sense that it happened before assembly. I'm not as versed in aluminum corrosion in engines as I am with airframe components. Any enlightenment would be appreciated.
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Well...there is a TSB on early 2010 Fusions of which mine is one where the ground strap was causing a no start/intermittent start issue. Who knows what effect that could have over a couple of months, especially if there was porosity or a thin part of the casting that could have made it suseptible (sic) to corrosion. I don't know if Ford will share with me what they discovered after analyzing the block.
New engine...no change
I picked up my car with it's brand new 2.5L crate engine installed. Ran great. Sat overnight. Started it up, backed out of the driveway, put it in 1st gear and took off. As soon as the tach hit 2000 RPM, the waterfall was heard, though not as bad as before. If I had the radio on, I may not have noticed.
So, a new engine didn't solve the problem. Back to the drawing board.
I picked up my car with it's brand new 2.5L crate engine installed. Ran great. Sat overnight. Started it up, backed out of the driveway, put it in 1st gear and took off. As soon as the tach hit 2000 RPM, the waterfall was heard, though not as bad as before. If I had the radio on, I may not have noticed.
So, a new engine didn't solve the problem. Back to the drawing board.
Do we know for sure that the engine is exactly the same between brands? I have read somewhere on the internet (so it must be true) that the heads were different, and therefore not interchangeable.(?)
I know in most areas, they sure look identical.
Are they built in the same plant? The transmission is built in Japan, is it not? IIRC, that is what the window sticker says.
I know in most areas, they sure look identical.
Are they built in the same plant? The transmission is built in Japan, is it not? IIRC, that is what the window sticker says.
The engines are assembled in 5 plants around the world, 2 of which are in Mexico and Michigan. But that doesn't say where the foundries are for block and head castings. Most likely, they are brought in from a vendor. And it's true that manufacturing processes do change and affect the quality. I'm surmising that the blocks for Mazda's are cast in the pacific rim or China. The North American vehicles are probably cast here. And therein could lie the problem.
I haven't heard about the head being different. From a cost standpoint, that wouldn't make sense as tooling cost would be more. Then again, you never know. For the Fusion, the manual transmissions are built in Japan. The automatics (2.5L) are a joint GM/Ford venture. The V6 is the Aisin transmission, of which Toyota is a major shareholder.
I haven't heard about the head being different. From a cost standpoint, that wouldn't make sense as tooling cost would be more. Then again, you never know. For the Fusion, the manual transmissions are built in Japan. The automatics (2.5L) are a joint GM/Ford venture. The V6 is the Aisin transmission, of which Toyota is a major shareholder.
Everything that I've found indicates that the long block (block & head assembly) is identical. The only changes are to the engine management system that Mazda and Ford use and accessories attached to the engine.
After the first day of hearing the waterfall, it has been stone silent for the past 9 days. So, maybe it is fixed. Time will tell.
If anyone here is curious about following the thread on this, use the link on post #4. There are now 18 pages and almost 14,000 views of the thread.
After the first day of hearing the waterfall, it has been stone silent for the past 9 days. So, maybe it is fixed. Time will tell.
If anyone here is curious about following the thread on this, use the link on post #4. There are now 18 pages and almost 14,000 views of the thread.
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