Cold air intake suggestions
- Thread starter Kyrosfactor
- Start date
- :
- 06 LS MS6
07 BM GT (shell has been struck from the roll)
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BrianFiebig
Member
- :
- 08 SPEED 3
I have the AEM/MAZDASPEED CAI with the air aligner thingy, and without the hydroshield doodad. Got it off ebay for $100. (GOD I love ebay...). I and a shop tech, noticed a slight hesitation when you pound on it below about 2500 rpm, but I believe this MAY be correctable via throttlebody grounding, and MAY exist on all of them. Unless I missunderstood some reading I have done, air velocity is king for low RPM and down low torque, and volume is king for high revving horses. I have the book upstairs, Ill have to double check. The bigger pipe and longer path WILL slow velocity if only from the added viscosity in the pipe. Im not a fluid dynamics guy, I understand what is happening, but I know I cant explain the hows and whys worth a lick.
DONT BELIEVE THE BS about it sucking in water when it rains. It sits about 6 inches off the ground, in the fenderwell. It gets plenty of air from the vents and from the bumper area, and I took the car thru about 8 inches of standing water (it was late, dark as hell, stopped raining an hour before, and it was on a blind curve) and it never noticed. Got clear, shut down, jacked the car up, and pulled off the cover. BONE DRY. You would have to drive thru retard deep water to worry about it, as In ROAD CLOSED deep. More likely SIT in it with water up over the top of the filter, because if its only partly submerged, its still going to suck more air the water. See a fish tank filter inlet. Thing will suck ONLY AIR if so much as one row of inlets is exposed.
Another mag did an install on an 09 recently (like a month ago...cant remember which) and added an AP. On the stock map, the intake alone dropped the 40 to 70 time by about half a second, and they made note of the same thing you will: With the intake the car doesnt fall flat on its face over 5500 RPM. My Dashhawk says it will spill a pound of boost at about 5000 from 16-17 to 15-16, depending on things, but holds 15-16 pounds from there until you get around to shifting.
I wont get into the whole CAI vs SRI arguement, other then to say that the SRI is probably better when you mash the gas down low, the CAI is probably better up top when volume matters, and when you dump 2 gears and blast off to go around something. But when you are simply cruising at 65-70 miles per hour, it doesnt make a lick of difference.
EDIT: Volume and velocity example: Dual upper intake runners from the SVT Contour. Long, skinny one for low down, kept velocity up for torque low, short fat one for top end high volume. Use a butterfly valve to open the secondary runners when needed. KNEW I I had seed a damn good example when I was selling cars lo those many years ago. See here: http://www.stuff.to/svtbrochure/power.html
DONT BELIEVE THE BS about it sucking in water when it rains. It sits about 6 inches off the ground, in the fenderwell. It gets plenty of air from the vents and from the bumper area, and I took the car thru about 8 inches of standing water (it was late, dark as hell, stopped raining an hour before, and it was on a blind curve) and it never noticed. Got clear, shut down, jacked the car up, and pulled off the cover. BONE DRY. You would have to drive thru retard deep water to worry about it, as In ROAD CLOSED deep. More likely SIT in it with water up over the top of the filter, because if its only partly submerged, its still going to suck more air the water. See a fish tank filter inlet. Thing will suck ONLY AIR if so much as one row of inlets is exposed.
Another mag did an install on an 09 recently (like a month ago...cant remember which) and added an AP. On the stock map, the intake alone dropped the 40 to 70 time by about half a second, and they made note of the same thing you will: With the intake the car doesnt fall flat on its face over 5500 RPM. My Dashhawk says it will spill a pound of boost at about 5000 from 16-17 to 15-16, depending on things, but holds 15-16 pounds from there until you get around to shifting.
I wont get into the whole CAI vs SRI arguement, other then to say that the SRI is probably better when you mash the gas down low, the CAI is probably better up top when volume matters, and when you dump 2 gears and blast off to go around something. But when you are simply cruising at 65-70 miles per hour, it doesnt make a lick of difference.
EDIT: Volume and velocity example: Dual upper intake runners from the SVT Contour. Long, skinny one for low down, kept velocity up for torque low, short fat one for top end high volume. Use a butterfly valve to open the secondary runners when needed. KNEW I I had seed a damn good example when I was selling cars lo those many years ago. See here: http://www.stuff.to/svtbrochure/power.html
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- 2007 MS3
The intake tract on the MS3 is all metal, so the throttlebody is already grounded. This trick does nothing for our cars.
Pounding on it at 2500 rpm . . . you asking for a bent rod . . . I never hit boost unless im over 3K.
Your right the SRI has slightly more tq and the CAI probably has slightly more hp. We are talking 1-2 at the most so the differences are almost neglegible. IMO the car already has enough torque for its own good. It builds torque so low before the turbo even starts spooling which is retarded and uncalled for.
Your right the SRI has slightly more tq and the CAI probably has slightly more hp. We are talking 1-2 at the most so the differences are almost neglegible. IMO the car already has enough torque for its own good. It builds torque so low before the turbo even starts spooling which is retarded and uncalled for.
///M Compact
Member
The BMW M42/44 motor had a similar setup back in the '90s. Munich called it DISA(differential air intake control).
Now, who's going to build the first MS3 short ram/CAI hybrid intake? (lol2)
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- 2007 MS3
Back in the day, I had a factory turbocharged Sunbird. It did not build boost until 3000 rpm.
No, it wasn`t that gawdawful ugly plastic GT. I found the part numbers and ordered an SE with the GT drivetrain and suspension. A ride like a buckboard and unequal length half shafts... talk about torque steer.
My mother in law had one of those. And she used to peel out from the stoplight (her words!) and surprise folks. Little old lady in The Sunbird. Two points to make please. First, I was reading Brians write up and enjoyed the enthusiasm and opinions. Thanks. But i would like to chime in about the low rpm pedal stomping. It turns out that even if you have a big torque # available down low, 2500, 3000 rpms, it is very bad for the bearings and will cause premature wear. It is better to get the R's up before asking for full power for long motor life. I agree with that sentiment from Coyfish after reading up on that aways back. I was doing it when i first got the car because i was amazed at how well it went sixty to eighty in 6th gear when passing starting at 2500 revs! Also, My little 01 dodge neon r/t had a valve to allow more air through the intake tract under heavy throttle. It sounded very noticable, and with an aem cold air on her, she sounded like the secondaries on a four barrel opening ( anyone remember those?{mid life?}. Or even VTEC! oops i said a bad word didn't i. I should be banned.
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- 2007 MS3
I remember when you couldn`t call yourself a car guy if you didn`t have either a holley "double pumper" or (if you really knew your s***) a hand built quadrajet. Small primaries, massive secondaries. When you hit the gas hard and they opened up you`d swear they could suck a bird in flight right of the air. Best sound was the tri-power setup with three massive two barrels. The center acted as the primaries and the front and rear opened together as the secondaries. That was intake noise.
Say what you want about their inefficiency, but there was little cooler than the sound of a roots blower winding up,too.
///M Compact
Member
Believe it or not, I still get called on to rebuild a Q-Jet every now and then.
Well my buddy just built his 1970 w30 with the ramrod 350 from the bottom up and it's almost broken in so he opened the secondaries while i was along for a ride. You know it ran the q-jet from the factory! It seemed that the float bowl stuck then smoothed out any thoughts? He just rebuilt it. He has a Holley he is thinking of popping on just in case. Just for fun you guys, i just finished the manual from Inglese induction sysyems for tuning the downdraft Webers on my friend's 1966 Shelby GT-H with a 331. Those are pretty nifty sounding too! Nothing cooler looking than velocity stacks! But the blower whine is awesome, and a good reason to be wary!!
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///M Compact
Member
Try adjusting the tension of the secondary air valve; most people tend to set it too loose. Try setting the adjustment screw at 3/4 of a turn past zero tension.
BrianFiebig
Member
- :
- 08 SPEED 3
Somewhat off topic but...
I agree that two of the cooler sounds in the world are 4V heads opening up and a roots blower spooling. Anyone else remember what a "Clevor" is?
As for roots blowers: I used to sell cars for Ford. the 03-04 Terminator Cobras could get a rise out of any car guy from the sound alone.
But the best sounding car I have ever driven (and the only car I will ever admit to being afraid of) was a very customized 1972 Opel GT. Front end spindled, twisted, mutilatied, and mauled to accept a 351W, bored and stroked to 392, EVERY horsepower trick in the book, porting, polishing, 5 angle valve job, the later EFI heads, custom tubular headers, bigger chevy valves, ETC ETC ETC. And topped off with a Whipple blower. Damn thing would try and hang the hoops in EVERY gear, and if everyone had one, chiropractors would be out of business, it cracked your spine EVERY time.
END OF THREADJACK.
As to pounding it below 3K....
Next time you are out on the highway doing, say 50 mph and you want to go around the fuel tanker, but DONT want to attract the attention of your local state trooper, look at the tach please. It will only be showing about 1750 RPM. Spilling a gear or 2 will probably get you a ticket. SO you change lanes and push in 6th. My dashhawk will start showing 2-4 pounds of boost almost instantly, and you will find yourself at 75 80 in a few seconds. You are NOT going to snap a rod under those conditions.
I agree that two of the cooler sounds in the world are 4V heads opening up and a roots blower spooling. Anyone else remember what a "Clevor" is?
As for roots blowers: I used to sell cars for Ford. the 03-04 Terminator Cobras could get a rise out of any car guy from the sound alone.
But the best sounding car I have ever driven (and the only car I will ever admit to being afraid of) was a very customized 1972 Opel GT. Front end spindled, twisted, mutilatied, and mauled to accept a 351W, bored and stroked to 392, EVERY horsepower trick in the book, porting, polishing, 5 angle valve job, the later EFI heads, custom tubular headers, bigger chevy valves, ETC ETC ETC. And topped off with a Whipple blower. Damn thing would try and hang the hoops in EVERY gear, and if everyone had one, chiropractors would be out of business, it cracked your spine EVERY time.
END OF THREADJACK.
As to pounding it below 3K....
Next time you are out on the highway doing, say 50 mph and you want to go around the fuel tanker, but DONT want to attract the attention of your local state trooper, look at the tach please. It will only be showing about 1750 RPM. Spilling a gear or 2 will probably get you a ticket. SO you change lanes and push in 6th. My dashhawk will start showing 2-4 pounds of boost almost instantly, and you will find yourself at 75 80 in a few seconds. You are NOT going to snap a rod under those conditions.
Carburation
I will pass that along to him and his brother, i am sure they will appreciate the suggestion and i, the help.
Ha that was fun to read, maybe i should get one of those to fix my back problems. I was just mentioning that lugging the motor hard from low rs, any motor creates extra load on crank bearings. I can not back that up with fact but i did read it more than once in one of the bazillion automotive publications i ponder. Have you tried a liittle less throttle after downshifting to stay under the Ahem, radar? I know, crazy talk.
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- 2007 MS3
Don`t feel bad. You need to either be a major Ford fan or know one who won`t shut up about them. In the day, the high performance designation for Ford was the Cleveland engine. The much more common engine was the Windsor. Parts were available to make it possible to bolt CLEVeland heads onto a windsOR block.
