Well, it's certainly not a performance setup. If anything, it's a downgrade.
Does anyone have?
- Thread starter speed6r
- Start date
Well, it's certainly not a performance setup. If anything, it's a downgrade.
triplejumper18
Banned
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- 2006 Mazdaspeed6 Grand Touring/2008 CX-9 Touring
FAIL
Way to downgrade your performance car.
Should have gone with the 6i springs for an even farther drop.
(hand)
Way to downgrade your performance car.
Should have gone with the 6i springs for an even farther drop.
(hand)
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- 2011 Mustang GT
Let's not start a pissing match here. I think people were just trying to look out for you since the springs were known to not work well for the MS6 due to its weight. If you like them, that's fine. Don't get pissy about people trying to help you, regardless of their tone. Not everyone will sugar coat it.
And I gotta say, for $500, that's a lot of cash for springs. Hell, the AutoEXE ones are cheaper than that.
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If you're looking for encouragement, look somewhere else. I don't encourage bad suspension engineering.
It's quite apparent that you don't see why what you did is a bad idea, so let me educate you:
This is a photo showing front shock travel for the Mazdaspeed6 (left), 6s (center), and a Koni shock (right).
Note a couple of things: The MS6 shock travel length is actually less than the regular 6 travel.
So, the MS6 has about 5.5" of travel to start with. But, recall that there's a bump stop in place. The bump stop occupies 3" of height, so that leaves you with 2.5" of travel. Based on the heavier weight of the MS6, your suspension drop will not be 1.5". But rather, it will be closer to 2". Subtract that from 2.5" and you'll only have 0.5" of front shock travel.
5.5" travel - 3" (bumpstop) = 2.5" suspension travel - 2.0" drop height = 0.5" final suspension travel.
0.5" travel is not necessarily bad, if you have increased spring rate to counter suspension compression. But, the problem is that you're actually below the spring rate to prevent that from happening.
If we use a 6s spring as a baseline for spring design for the Mazdaspeed6, it would be:
- 25-30% stiffer to account for the added weight of the MS6.
- For a drop of 1.5-2.0", I would be looking at another 20-30% spring rate increase to prevent bottoming out.
The Mazdaspeed spring for the V6, only does one of the above - leaving you with an undersprung setup.
When it all settles, you'll be left with little or no suspension travel on a softer suspension setup - recipe for bottoming out.
Suspension travel is king. If you don't have room to travel, the suspension is not working.
And, I haven't even begun to address the differences between the sedan springs and the hatchback springs! God help you, if you have the sedan springs.
That's not hating. That's just plain and simple Engineering 101.
Feel free to counter my argument with the same amount detail and explanation.
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- 2011 Mustang GT
Excellent post Raynman! Very informative and it gets the point across.
I've seen MS6's with improper spring setups and it's not pretty. Eibach Sportlines are not a good mix with our cars.
I've seen MS6's with improper spring setups and it's not pretty. Eibach Sportlines are not a good mix with our cars.
gotallofthem
Member
Alright, I'm a bit confused here, I was reading the posts that were written, and some of the posts say that, "Mazdaspeed" does not make any lowering springs for the MS6.
But on teh Mazdausa.com website, it shows some lowering springs for the 06-07 MS6 that lowers the car by 37mm.
So how come people are saying that they dont make springs, I'm confused here.
I called the parts the department to confirm this, they said that there are 2 different parts numbers listed in their system, one for the 6cyl , and one for the MS6.
It's 2 different part numbers for 2 different parts.
These springs are listed at 300 bucks. So you got them installed for 500 buks (part and labor). I cant remember what my service center said, Im not sure if they said 540 for the labor, or they ment 540 for parts and labor.
But on teh Mazdausa.com website, it shows some lowering springs for the 06-07 MS6 that lowers the car by 37mm.
So how come people are saying that they dont make springs, I'm confused here.
I called the parts the department to confirm this, they said that there are 2 different parts numbers listed in their system, one for the 6cyl , and one for the MS6.
It's 2 different part numbers for 2 different parts.
These springs are listed at 300 bucks. So you got them installed for 500 buks (part and labor). I cant remember what my service center said, Im not sure if they said 540 for the labor, or they ment 540 for parts and labor.
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- 2011 Mustang GT
Going straight to Mazda and looking at their MS accessories, you'll find this link offers the springs for the 3.0 & MS6. GRMS-8M-H14 is the part #. They show it posted twice listed two different ways, but they are the same part # for both.
Basically, the MS springs are Eibach rebadges IIRC, and if you cross-reference Eibach's suspension options for the 6 and MS6, you'll find out that the V6 and MS6 springs are indeed the same part # as well for Eibach.
If you're truly looking for a MS6 only spring setup that will be stiffer than the stock MS6 springs, look at the AutoEXE, RPM Street/Sport, or H&R springs.
Basically, the MS springs are Eibach rebadges IIRC, and if you cross-reference Eibach's suspension options for the 6 and MS6, you'll find out that the V6 and MS6 springs are indeed the same part # as well for Eibach.
If you're truly looking for a MS6 only spring setup that will be stiffer than the stock MS6 springs, look at the AutoEXE, RPM Street/Sport, or H&R springs.
Interesting! This conflicts with the majority of, "know-it-all's" on this forum. lol!
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TX Speed 6
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed 6
What are the part numbers they gave you?
(uhm)
Survival of the fittest. I say let stupid people make stupid mistakes.
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- 2011 Mustang GT
I try to provide people with information based on things I may have researched. Since I just did a spring install, I looked at all possible options and read reviews, pricing, etc. If you don't want to listen, go for it. Don't come on here and b**** when something isn't right and it was told to you from the get-go. Sometimes the 'know-it-alls' actually aren't talking out their ass.
well said i agree!
Who said something was wrong?
mazdaspeedster3
Member
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- Mazdaspeed3. 2008
Did you get them on the car yet?
If you're looking for encouragement, look somewhere else. I don't encourage bad suspension engineering.
It's quite apparent that you don't see why what you did is a bad idea, so let me educate you:
This is a photo showing front shock travel for the Mazdaspeed6 (left), 6s (center), and a Koni shock (right).
Note a couple of things: The MS6 shock travel length is actually less than the regular 6 travel.
So, the MS6 has about 5.5" of travel to start with. But, recall that there's a bump stop in place. The bump stop occupies 3" of height, so that leaves you with 2.5" of travel. Based on the heavier weight of the MS6, your suspension drop will not be 1.5". But rather, it will be closer to 2". Subtract that from 2.5" and you'll only have 0.5" of front shock travel.
5.5" travel - 3" (bumpstop) = 2.5" suspension travel - 2.0" drop height = 0.5" final suspension travel.
0.5" travel is not necessarily bad, if you have increased spring rate to counter suspension compression. But, the problem is that you're actually below the spring rate to prevent that from happening.
If we use a 6s spring as a baseline for spring design for the Mazdaspeed6, it would be:
- 25-30% stiffer to account for the added weight of the MS6.
- For a drop of 1.5-2.0", I would be looking at another 20-30% spring rate increase to prevent bottoming out.
The Mazdaspeed spring for the V6, only does one of the above - leaving you with an undersprung setup.
When it all settles, you'll be left with little or no suspension travel on a softer suspension setup - recipe for bottoming out.
Suspension travel is king. If you don't have room to travel, the suspension is not working.
And, I haven't even begun to address the differences between the sedan springs and the hatchback springs! God help you, if you have the sedan springs.
That's not hating. That's just plain and simple Engineering 101.
Feel free to counter my argument with the same amount detail and explanation.
Awesome post. Thanks!
Umm...actually no. First of all, your setup hasn't settled yet. Give it a few weeks and you'll see your drop come up to be significantly more than 1.5". The first photo you took with your iPhone was 6/23. You've only had one week with it. Give it time.
Do your homework on part numbers GRMS-8M-H14 and -H15 (wagon/hatch) have always been springs for the regular 6. Only recently did the website change, and even that isn't conclusive: Read the part where it says "Mazda6s sedan V6 only."
But really, even if the website did say it's for the Mazdaspeed6 it doesn't necessarily mean that it's automatically correct. It boils down to physics. Ask any performance suspension engineer and they'll tell you the fundamentals of lowering:
- Lower to a desired height.
- Increase the spring rate rate to prevent bottoming out.
- Match the dampening rates of the shocks to keep the setup collected (I'll get to this later).
H14 is 30% stiffer than the OEM Mazda6 springs. The Mazdaspeed6 OEM suspension is about 25% stiffer than the Mazda6's. Both percentages line up - In other words, you just dropped your suspension without increasing your spring rates.
For your sake, I hope you have H15 springs. What's even worse, is that regular Mazda6 owners complain that H14 gives uneven lowering heights. There are plenty of reports out there of H14 lowering more on the rear, meaning the H14 spring rates are insufficient. H15 springs which are designed for the wagon and the hatch (which are heavier in the rear), give a much better even drop and better balance.
If you do have H14 springs, you have a Mazdaspeed6 that is lowered and not just undersprung - it's even more undersprung in the rear which will wreak havoc on balance on a car that's heavier in the rear because of the AWD components back there.
That's why plenty of Mazda6 owners (myself included) actually use H15 be it sedan, wagon or hatch to get an even drop and to get a good setup. Even better when we (myself included) pair the H15's with Mazdaspeed6 OEM shocks. This is why the 25-30% range is such a key range for V6 Mazda6's: 1.5" drop, 30% spring rate increase, 25% dampening rate increase from the OEM MS6 shocks. This fulfills the fundamentals I mentioned, and it's a hoot to drive around.
But in any event, show me mathematically how a drop greater than 1.5" with no spring rate increase can't possible lead to bottoming out. I'm still waiting.
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mazdaspeedster3
Member
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- Mazdaspeed3. 2008
I am not driving a speed 6 but I have heard more than enough (off forum) MS6 springs dont upgrade from Mazda. You can drop but wont add any performance value... With that I would question anyone telling me otherwise until I could prove what I wanted to know. Love for Mazda period, no one wants to see anyone fail, only succeed.
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- 2011 Mustang GT
Raynman, not to thread jack entirely, but have you heard of anyone running Tokico blue shocks/struts on a lowered MS6, and if so, what kind of increased damping do those provide?
Second, if those won't be a worthwhile addition to my setup (H&R springs), which shocks/struts would you recommend?
Second, if those won't be a worthwhile addition to my setup (H&R springs), which shocks/struts would you recommend?
