better handling ms3 or msp

[BadBandar]

s*** he's got MS coilovers and upgraded sways. if we use this as a benchmark, I'm gonna get SMOKED. if I stay withing like 5 seconds of him I'll say I'd be faster stock for stock. lol

I beleive in you. Give that Ms3 a run for his money. Stock msp suspension is still pretty good.

 

[Knox Joe]

Getting a Miata would be more fun.

Yeah, I'm getting a MSM as soon as the MSP is paid off. Black or copper.
I want a FWD, AWD, and RWD Mazdaspeed in the garage.

 

[daonly1around]

Yeah, I'm getting a MSM as soon as the MSP is paid off. Black or copper.
I want a FWD, AWD, and RWD Mazdaspeed in the garage.

sooo do i.... but i'll probaly will own one mazdaspeed vehicle, and will probably be my last.. until i'm old

 

[mr_mazda329]

Yeah, I'm getting a MSM as soon as the MSP is paid off. Black or copper.
I want a FWD, AWD, and RWD Mazdaspeed in the garage.

Or a first gen with 250whp @ 14psi wearing flares on 15x9 w/275 tires...hmmm

 

[blkspdfreak]

this is never going to end untill someone test both of the cars around the same track, with stock cars, and multiple drivers so they can average out the times. im done.

 

[MS3_KIDD]

im almost certain that the speed 3 will have consistanly better times because its a over all faster vehicle

its isnt a arguement over which is faster its about which handles better and even that in it's self is relative to a drivers preferences

there are to many factors that all contribute to a drivers perception on how their vehicle handles especially if they drive different vehicles on a regular basis

 

[fastdreams]

im almost certain that the speed 3 will have consistanly better times because its a over all faster vehicle

its isnt a arguement over which is faster its about which handles better and even that in it's self is relative to a drivers preferences

there are to many factors that all contribute to a drivers perception on how their vehicle handles especially if they drive different vehicles on a regular basis

The Force is strong with this one.

 

[mr_mazda329]

im almost certain that the speed 3 will have consistanly better times because its a over all faster vehicle

its isnt a arguement over which is faster its about which handles better and even that in it's self is relative to a drivers preferences

there are to many factors that all contribute to a drivers perception on how their vehicle handles especially if they drive different vehicles on a regular basis

(bowdown) Finally

 

[MS3_KIDD]

when a driver regularly drives the same vehicle they become intune with how a vehicle behaves under cirtain conditions

i know certain on/off ramps on some highways that i can hit at a specific speed in the msp and i know what to expect as far as vehicle response

we can go on and on and argue specs and times but it still doesnt change that we are in essence arguing "what feels good" as far as a vehicles behavior

drive your car with the wheel all the way up and seat just a tad farther back and then say it doesnt feel right but as soon as its the way you like it your car feels 10 times faster and handles like its on rails

its the same vehicle but even the way a driver sits affects how they feel the car handles

 

[Knox Joe]

Eh, I drive 4 different cars on a regular basis (Chevy Express, MSP, MS6, and AE86), and they all handle different. The reason the MSP feels good is not driver perception, like you're saying. When you switch back and forth between vehicles you really get a feel for each one, and you can distinguish different things about each car. The MSP is just one of the best handling cars out there, no driver perception involved.

 

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Eh, I drive 4 different cars on a regular basis (Chevy Express, MSP, MS6, and AE86), and they all handle different. The reason the MSP feels good is not driver perception, like you're saying. When you switch back and forth between vehicles you really get a feel for each one, and you can distinguish different things about each car. The MSP is just one of the best handling cars out there, no driver perception involved.

I totally agree with you.... I have also tried few Ford Focus STs of friends of mine With Coilovers and nothing close to my MSP. Ive also tried the Mazda 3 MPS and i have to be honest i still dont understand how can both of this car can be compared in handling, the MS3 feels really heavy under hard cornering, and the MSP handles and grip so good you even slide in the seats while the car is like rolling on rails... Every single friend of mine that had rode with me have said the same thing, feels like a Track car, handles and brake insane, and i dont even have a BBK on my car yet. Ive even driven my friends Mazda 323 GT-R AWD and to be honest im Jealous at all of his AWD system, I still think the MSP is by far the best handling sport compact car world wide ever made, dont matter if is FWD, RWD or AWD simply handles like no other Stock by stock and modified by modified...

 

[Wagonbacker9]

Here: Empirical handling test results

MSP: It holds our record for stock front-drive cars through the slalom (71.4 mph) and pulls a superb .88g around the skidpad.

MS3: Roadholding, 200-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g, slalom 69.6 mph

MSP = WINNAR!

edit: also found a .88 and .91g number as well as a 63.5mph for the MS3, so i don't know which to take, but, I still have to say that the slalom speed is the best indicator of "handling" in this context... I'm sure the driver would effect the slalom.. but having different skidpad numbers can really only be temperature...

 

[mr_mazda329]

Thats still isn't bad considering the extra pounds we are lugging around...which is the factor. Weight will dull the sensitivity and agility of a car.. Look at the Miata, agile as a flea...weighs 2200lbs.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

I agree. I believe if they made the MS3 in a sedan (like personally I say they shoulda to begin with) it would tip the scale in the same magnitude in the other direction.

 

[fastdreams]

I agree. I believe if they made the MS3 in a sedan (like personally I say they shoulda to begin with) it would tip the scale in the same magnitude in the other direction.

Why would the MS3 in sedan form be better? Opinion/taste aside. I know some hate hatches and wagons.

 

[Wagonbacker9]

I'm not a wagon hater. I prefer sedans, but have had both a 2 door "wagon" (there was also a "hatch" option for that car, much like the mz6, but 2 door) and a 4 door subie wagon. both very handy.

the wagon adds more weight in in the worst place for it. even at the same weight (all other things being equal.. see note below), a sedan would have a lower center of gravity and would handle better because the center of gravity would be closer to the center of force.
note: the only possibility to counter this concept would be if the wagon body was by nature stiffer than an equally weighted sedan body.

 

[Nliiitend1]

I'm not a wagon hater. I prefer sedans, but have had both a 2 door "wagon" (there was also a "hatch" option for that car, much like the mz6, but 2 door) and a 4 door subie wagon. both very handy.

the wagon adds more weight in in the worst place for it. even at the same weight (all other things being equal.. see note below), a sedan would have a lower center of gravity and would handle better because the center of gravity would be closer to the center of force.
note: the only possibility to counter this concept would be if the wagon body was by nature stiffer than an equally weighted sedan body.

Actually, the HB body style adds weight in the area that it's needed most (that is if you can make the argument that it needs any more weight).

In other words, the F/R weight distribution of the sedan should be even more front-biased than the hatchback...

 

[Wagonbacker9]

Actually, the HB body style adds weight in the area that it's needed most (that is if you can make the argument that it needs any more weight).

In other words, the F/R weight distribution of the sedan should be even more front-biased than the hatchback...

I was refering to height, not balance. i don't know what makes you think the weight of a hatch would be distributed further back than a sedan either though.

 

[Nliiitend1]

I was refering to height, not balance. i don't know what makes you think the weight of a hatch would be distributed further back than a sedan either though.

Ah, that you were referring to height makes more sense...

Pretty much all of the hatch's extra weight is in the back. Yes, the hatch weighs more than the sedan, but ALL of that extra weight is added to the back, not the front, which actually helps move the F/R weight distrubution
rearward.

 

[fastdreams]

Ok good answer, COG is a good factor to point out. This is part of the cause of the body roll the MS3 has (it's not terrible, but it is more than I would like - hence the Hotchkis sway bars on my car!)

I was stuck thinking that you were talking about structural rigidity. Which I believe the MS3 is very good at that aspect.

The MS3 is on the heavy side which is the only complaint I have. But it is fairly big for a "small" car. It's hard to find a new car that weighs even as little as the MS3 that is also as practical and as capable. But that weight is really only a problem on very tight tracks, or autox. The power to weight is decent, and in my experience the MS3 handles very very well on the track. The combination of handling, braking and power make the MS3 very good on the track for a 20k car.

I find a car can be transformed in it's handling qualities simply by changing the tires.

The way a car responds at the limit is also very important to me, and that is where the MS3 will make you look like a hero. Many cars that are as fast as the MS3 on the track (S2000 for example) will bite back and bite hard if you get a little bit ham-fisted with it. The MS3 just keeps on tracking. That's what's allows me to put down quick lap times over and over again. I push the limit lap after lap. I can pass people all day long in cars that handle way better than the MS3 could dream of, but those cars are hard to drive, the drivers are afraid of destroying their car.

pardon my off-topic rambling Just wanted to share what makes the MS3 good in my experience.

I'd like to hear from an MSP driver that has a good amount of track experience. That's what really matters to me. Slalom times, skidpad, has almost as much to do with the tires as it does the car. They look good in a magazine next to the acceleration times. How the chassis behaves at the limit on the track is what sets a car apart. I'd think the MSP has very good potential at the track, with a tune, tire upgrade, maybe suspension upgrade it should be quick!