Need quick timing belt help!!

[jesus_man]

I am stumped. I searched thru this forum and read every for the last few years and it seems I am doing it all right.
2001 protege 2.0L

ONe confusing thing is on the cam shaft pulley's the I or E and the mark on the pulley are not 90* from each other so it is impossible to get the letter straight up and the marks straight across.

He's what I got. I marked the keyway on the crank with a marker so I know where it's at with the bolt on. I rotate it so it;s pointing straight up. I have tried three scenarios. 1 where I line the marks on the cams up horzontally, no start. 2 where I put the letters at the 12 o'clock position and the marks near horizontal. 3 align the cams with something between 1 and 2. Still no luck.

When it broke, was driving and I didn't know what had happened. The code said cam position sensor. However, once I found the broken timing belt, I assumed my CPS was still good, but was not reading properly because the cam was not spinning.

So can someone please put an ohm meter on their good CPS and tell me what you get?

My only guesses are the CPS is bad, or I have the timing off, or I am not plugging something in when I put it back together.

Having the accessory belts off shouldn't change anything should it? I lay the valve cover back on the engine, plug the spark plugs back on, the CPS, the crank position sensor and even the A/C stuff and nothing.

Thanks for your help!

J.D.

 

[jesus_man]

Got it. The downloadable shop manual must be for the 1.6 because the marks for my car needed to point 180 degrees from each other, away from the center of the engine.

After speaking with my mechanic cousin, he had me set it up based on the valves opening and then see where the lines are then. Everything spins clock-wise so you want #1 cylinder (closest to the timing belt) at TDC or keyway in the crank straight up. Then I rotated the intake cam (closest to the windshield) so that it was about to push the valves open and the exhaust so that it had just let the valves close. Then I pulled the belt tight around the exhaust cam, and using a wrench on the intake cam, adjusted the intake cam so that the belt was tight between the two cams. Then install the tensioner and then hook the spring in with a wire loop. I believe that is going to work, but I have to put the rest of the car back together.

J.D.

 

[jesus_man]

I had to rush on the post above because we had guests coming for dinner.

Saturday I had my wife start the car while I held tension on the belt with a alan wrench and it seemed to be running fine. yesterday, I put the tensioner back on, hooked up the spring and started the car again and it seemed to be purring like a kitten. I shut it down, put everything back together and took a test drive and it seems to be great! It also got me to work this morning without issue.

pic 1 is the crank where the white mark is straight up and down.
pic 2 is the exhaust cam with the timing mark & the E at 3o'clock.
pic 3 is the intake cam with the I and the mark at the 9'oclock position

I am sure I had it right for the last 25k miles because the car seems ro run smoother than it did then, but that might have just been from a sloppy spring. See pic 4.

J.D.

 

[rbianco3]

You were Right!

snipped...
pic 1 is the crank where the white mark is straight up and down.
pic 2 is the exhaust cam with the timing mark & the E at 3o'clock.
pic 3 is the intake cam with the I and the mark at the 9'oclock positions
snipped...
J.D.

THANK YOU Jesus Man for posting this information. There is some bad information in the manuals floating around the internet. They all say to put the Intake and Exhaust marks to the center and that is WRONG.

I am thankful to have found your posts because I was at my wits end. After moving the timing marks to the outside like you described, the car fired up and ran like a champion immediately.

I can only guess that the manual is wrong because the Protege 5 was only made for a short period of time and maybe the motor is different than the base Protege.

It cost me about 800 bucks, (warped head, water pump, timing belt, gaskets, belts) but the car is ready for another hundred thousand miles.

 

[808MP5]

I can tell you right now. The crank is wrong. Your intake cam is 180deg off. It's all wrong

 

[slavrenz]

Agreed. There's no way your intake cam mark should be at 9 o'clock and your exhaust cam mark at 3 o'clock

 

[Mazda_maniac]

Both cams are 180 off...... The I on your left cam needs to be lined up with the E on your right cam..... And at that timing belt pulley the notch needs to be straight up....

I also have the Mazda factory manual for the 2.0 FS if you would like it. Pm me.

Also have your cam gears ever been pulled off? If so that is why it seems right now... the dowel pin was placed on in the wrong slot, and the cams all messed up.. That's a serious problem in terms of ease of changing the belt, timing etc...

 

[rbianco3]

Ok, I'm having an open mind here, but why does the car run perfectly? It runs slightly better than before the head job. It isn't overheating, starts easy.

When I had the cams like the manual suggested the engine would not start and backfired through the intake indicating an extremely out of time situation.

We just bought the car so can't say if the cam sprockets were put on wrong.

 

[rbianco3]

Is the Mazda Protege 5 the same motor we are talking about?

 

[rbianco3]

Oh, the crank mark (keyway) was pointing straight up when I assembled. After assembly I noticed the timing mark was at about 2 degrees before top dead center.

I know that there is no way the engine will run with cam gears 180 degrees off... so there must be another logical explanation for this situation. I also know if the cam gears were put on wrong (wrong slot having pin) the timing would be way off and the car would not run.

Theories welcomed... I'd like to understand WHY this happened... and why it happened to JesusMan too.

 

[rbianco3]

Is it possible someone swapped the motor for a 1.6 before we purchased? Would the 1.6 timing be set the way that I did?

 

[808MP5]

the car will run... when i had my second motor put in they had the intake cam 180deg off and my exhaust cam at some weird angle... car ran but not perfect...

got that sorted out and now my car runs like a champ

from your pictures im pretty sure thats how mine were setup also when they did it... but you will run into random misfires P0300 i can almost be certain... but from your picture of the crank pully i can't decifer anything because the timing mark can't be seen

Here's some illustrations of what it should look like

and it's a PITA getting it lined up properly... when i got my timing fixed it took me and a buddy about an hour of fiddling to get it right

 

[rbianco3]

Here's some illustrations of what it should look like

and it's a PITA getting it lined up properly... when i got my timing fixed it took me and a buddy about an hour of fiddling to get it right

Thanks for the pictures. My cam sprockets are mounted on the cams like your pictures so that's good. My crank timing mark is at "T" but instead of the cam gears having "I" ntake and "E"xhaust marks aligned in the center, they are exactly 180 degrees opposite. The I is exactly even with the block on the outside motor (closest to windshield). The E is exactly even with the block surface closest to the front of the car.

Now I had the timing set EXACTLY like you described because it is what the manual indicated, but the car wouldn't start, it sputtered and backfired through the intake. It wasn't a minor issue of being off a cog, but major mistimed situation. After reading Jesus Man's situation I decided to give it a try. Notice he also mentioned something about his cam gears being different that the I & E's didn't seem to be at the same spacing as shown in the manual... this was the same for my car.

With the cams set 180 degrees "wrong" the car starts, and runs perfectly. No misfires, no overheating, nothing out of the ordinary. I can tell what a car sounds like when it is out of time, if advanced to much it rolls over like a performance car with a big cam. It wasn't like that at all. If timing is retarded it usually rolls easy but difficult to start and idles slow.

I am definitely not new to engines and can respect that something is not right, but I think the explanation is something other than the car running with the timing 180 degrees off. I could be wrong and still open to suggestions.

Thanks to all

 

[jesus_man]

THANK YOU Jesus Man for posting this information. There is some bad information in the manuals floating around the internet. They all say to put the Intake and Exhaust marks to the center and that is WRONG.

I am thankful to have found your posts because I was at my wits end. After moving the timing marks to the outside like you described, the car fired up and ran like a champion immediately.

I can only guess that the manual is wrong because the Protege 5 was only made for a short period of time and maybe the motor is different than the base Protege.

It cost me about 800 bucks, (warped head, water pump, timing belt, gaskets, belts) but the car is ready for another hundred thousand miles.

I am glad I could help. That's the whole reason to post it and if I only help one person, the effort was all worth it.

I have probably put about 1000 miles on the car since I did this without issue and getting at or above 30mpg, so I find it hard to believe anything is wrong. I also bought my car used so I have no idea if any of the pulley's were removed, but as I mentioned in my posts above, I ignored the marked on the pulley's until I was certain the valves were in the correct location in regards to the crank. Then I noticed that they were very close to 9 and 3 o'clock so I set them there and the car has been perfect since then.

I am a mediocre shade tree mechanic at best so I don't fully understand everything engine related, but this is a fairly straight forward concept that I understand. Just helped my neighbor set his up the same way on a Subaru and it's running again as well.

J.D.

 

[jesus_man]

If I had things off 180 wouldn't I be sucking air in from the tail pipe and exhausting thru the intake? Which should cause it to run bad and smoke coming from the intake. I don't get any of that.

The main purposed of the timing belt is to keep the valves in time with the cranks. So you set your #1 cylinder at TDC. The first stroke is intake, so set your intake valve for #1 cylinder so that it is just starting to open, then set your exhaust valve so that it is just starting to close. This should get you very close to in time, so that's when the marks come into play. For me it was to move them so that they were at the 9 and 3 oclock positions respectively. They won't be at some weird angle like 10* or anything. Probably on factors of 90*. If I remember correctly, my settings are 180* from what the manual told me, but again, I think the manual was for the 1.6L.

I don't want to do any hard to the car, so I am open to suggestion, but following that logic seems fool proof.

J.D.

 

[jonny_sin]

hahahaha funny bout this thread but true at the same time..all though the book says both the "I" and "E" mark should face each other for correct timing alignment. the fact is that on these marks the intake was opening after combustion instead of the exhaust therefore the you got the backfire through the intake.

That is why jesus_man's mechanic friend told him to go by the cam lobes on piston1 instead of relying on the marks. truth of the matter is that the car is running and he hasn't posted anything bad since so.. it could be right

 

[808MP5]

the funny thing is that it's not right. I trust the shop manual. I'm pretty sure mazda and there years of experience and R&D would print, distribute, and sell a bogus repair manual. But hey if it works it works. But it's still wrong

 

[jesus_man]

the funny thing is that it's not right. I trust the shop manual. I'm pretty sure mazda and there years of experience and R&D would print, distribute, and sell a bogus repair manual. But hey if it works it works. But it's still wrong

I'm all ears. If I indeed had them 180* off, what would be happening? I am more than happy to test a theory or two that would prove I am 180* out.

J.D.

 

[Novice]

Do you remember if your cam lobes were facing out away from each other on #1 cylinder when it was correct?

I am having similar no start issue, I line of the marks at the I and E so they face eachother and I get no start. The cam lobes are pointing directly away from each other when it's aligned like the book states...

 

[Novice]

Is this right? The both look open to me.