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[happy and angry]

You said "this is the best 'evidence' i have:" And I said "Then don't bring it up if it's not evidence."

Oh, I see what you did there! You put the word evidence in quotes so as to suggest it wasn't actually evidence, even though you were using it as such! Man, that's a neat trick. I have some "evidence" in this thread that "you" do not "understand" critical thinking or "how to present ideas" and that "perhaps" you should stop trying to argue that "it wasn't presented as evidence" when you brought up the video to "address" someone "saying" "show me some evidence."

You see what I just did there?

If you want to play the "YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET MAN, IT MIGHT BE FAKE!!!" card, go ahead, be a little manchild, throw a tantrum, take your toys, and go home. I will, however, hope that Laloosh posts a dyno chart one day so I can see if he makes power past 5500, and if he does I will not suggest that he is a liar and faked it if his results don't mesh with my opinion.

 

[dcomiskey]

Wow, great work! I gotta get this flash!! Does seem high at $400 for a flash, but we gotta think about the time that went into developing this.

Swampass, any drawbacks to the flash?

$400 is cheap for a flash. Hell, on my VW I paid $500 PLUS another $200 for a controller....

 

[controlo]

You said "this is the best 'evidence' i have:" And I said "Then don't bring it up if it's not evidence."

Oh, I see what you did there! You put the word evidence in quotes so as to suggest it wasn't actually evidence, even though you were using it as such! Man, that's a neat trick. I have some "evidence" in this thread that "you" do not "understand" critical thinking or "how to present ideas" and that "perhaps" you should stop trying to argue that "it wasn't presented as evidence" when you brought up the video to "address" someone "saying" "show me some evidence."

You see what I just did there?

If you want to play the "YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET MAN, IT MIGHT BE FAKE!!!" card, go ahead, be a little manchild, throw a tantrum, take your toys, and go home. I will, however, hope that Laloosh posts a dyno chart one day so I can see if he makes power past 5500, and if he does I will not suggest that he is a liar and faked it if his results don't mesh with my opinion.

i was basically saying, "this isn't proof, but it's something to consider". but, what's the problem with that? if you don't want to consider it, don't. you don't have to be a douche. i never said that all graphs are fake. obviously, since i showed you the link to multiple graphs, hoping they might meet your criteria and you'd shut the **** up. i also never said that a graph is fake if it doesn't mesh with my opinion. don't put words in my mouth. it's very simple. just because you believe something doesn't mean it's true. i.e. a dyno graph being more evidential than a video demonstrating what a dyno graph would show.

you asked for 'proof' in an asshole way and i'm trying to explain to you that there's no such thing as proof on an internet forum. you wouldn't except that, so i gave you graphs that i thought you might except. instead, you cry about it still.

you've made no valid arguments against me. you started the argument, you're going to end it. or are you?

 

[controlo]

Although your thread is relevant, if we use your philosophy, those graphs (which are excel graphs) could have been modified!! lol

realisiticlly, laloosh is using a a standback to control his boost, making our K04 arguement relatively obsolete. I don't think anyone is going to deny that our fuel pump sucks, but I think that our turbo goes out first.

you're right, they could have been. i'm not saying those graphs or videos are real or fake. i'm merely providing them. you can consider them evidence or you cannot consider them at all. i felt like that might contribute to this thread. instead, it summoned the almighty intellect of happy and angry.

i don't think that the turbo runs out of steam entirely... i think there is an efficiency range much higher than what mazda implements. mazda basically shuts down boost at 5700rpms. the nuespeed info states that the k04 can't reliably run 15psi or higher after 5800 rpms. that, to me, means that it can run 14psi safely.

and i don't know if that efficiency rating can be altered with modifications... what if you had a way of reducing exhaust heat? ceramic coated something... one of my friends was talking about.

anyway... i didn't mean to insult you either Vord. I just felt like i was being attacked. (dark)(eek2)

(drinks)

 

[controlo]

sorry for ******* up your thready swamp. :/

 

[Vord]

You said "this is the best 'evidence' i have:" And I said "Then don't bring it up if it's not evidence."

Oh, I see what you did there! You put the word evidence in quotes so as to suggest it wasn't actually evidence, even though you were using it as such! Man, that's a neat trick. I have some "evidence" in this thread that "you" do not "understand" critical thinking or "how to present ideas" and that "perhaps" you should stop trying to argue that "it wasn't presented as evidence" when you brought up the video to "address" someone "saying" "show me some evidence."

You see what I just did there?

If you want to play the "YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET MAN, IT MIGHT BE FAKE!!!" card, go ahead, be a little manchild, throw a tantrum, take your toys, and go home. I will, however, hope that Laloosh posts a dyno chart one day so I can see if he makes power past 5500, and if he does I will not suggest that he is a liar and faked it if his results don't mesh with my opinion.

I am pretty sure laloosh is banned.

you're right, they could have been. i'm not saying those graphs or videos are real or fake. i'm merely providing them. you can consider them evidence or you cannot consider them at all. i felt like that might contribute to this thread. instead, it summoned the almighty intellect of happy and angry.

i don't think that the turbo runs out of steam entirely... i think there is an efficiency range much higher than what mazda implements. mazda basically shuts down boost at 5700rpms. the nuespeed info states that the k04 can't reliably run 15psi or higher after 5800 rpms. that, to me, means that it can run 14psi safely.

and i don't know if that efficiency rating can be altered with modifications... what if you had a way of reducing exhaust heat? ceramic coated something... one of my friends was talking about.

anyway... i didn't mean to insult you either Vord. I just felt like i was being attacked. (dark)(eek2)

(drinks)

well, someone stated earlier that there are multiple K04 turbos, so perhaps neuspeed is talking about a shittier one.

I think that for the purpose of maintaining 15.6psi we could easily put on a boost controller and a bigger pump and just go with it. if you want more boost, I would say be safe, don't blow your s*** up and get a bigger turbo.

(btw, anyone else notice that NEUSPEED uses the same exact font as MAZDASPEED? Is that a conincidence or am I missing something)

 

[happy and angry]

i was basically saying, "this isn't proof, but it's something to consider". but, what's the problem with that? if you don't want to consider it, don't. you don't have to be a douche. i never said that all graphs are fake. obviously, since i showed you the link to multiple graphs, hoping they might meet your criteria and you'd shut the **** up. i also never said that a graph is fake if it doesn't mesh with my opinion. don't put words in my mouth. it's very simple. just because you believe something doesn't mean it's true. i.e. a dyno graph being more evidential than a video demonstrating what a dyno graph would show.

you asked for 'proof' in an asshole way and i'm trying to explain to you that there's no such thing as proof on an internet forum. you wouldn't except that, so i gave you graphs that i thought you might except. instead, you cry about it still.

you've made no valid arguments against me. you started the argument, you're going to end it. or are you?

I never asked you for proof, I told you that the "proof" you brought up when someone asked you for proof was crap. You didn't say "here is something to consider for this reason and this reason and this reason" you said "here is some 'evidence'" and left it at that. I called your "evidence" crap and told you to make it less crap or not bring it up.

It's still not even something to think about. All it does is show a guy shifting high in the RPM range. It doesn't address the making power past 5500 question, and all it does is pose another question: why does he shift that high? For which there are multiple answers, only one of which is "because power does not drop off drastically after 5500 rpm." The "proof"/"something to think about" that you provided is worse than nothing, it is misleading and worthless at best.

Here is why your stance on the dyno graph is dumb: a dyno graph will show you exactly what happens to the torque curves at any given point in the RPM range. Your video does not. It just shows a dude's front console, which, as I've already explained, is meaningless. It doesn't measure power, it just measures.... uh.... speed. You can no more watch the speedometer and guess at torque numbers or where the effective power band is than you can flap your arms and fly. To suggest that a video of a speedo and a dyno graph are somehow equivalent or equally representative of where and when the turbo runs out of breath is ridiculous.

you've made no valid arguments against me.

Really? What you said, how you said it, and the video you used to support your position were stupid. You might like to tell yourself I'm incorrect about this, but if I was to show you a video of a speedometer as a driver accelerated followed by saying "Check out how early in the RPM band he's making power, that's like 400 lb.ft of torque!!!" I would hope you would be able to see how what I was showing you did not necessarily (at all) corroborate what I was arguing.

What you say and how you say it, in the context in which you say it, matters. Try out that critical thinking thing.

 

[MS3-oholic]

This thread is exactly why I hate this forum more every time I visit. Everyone is just a bunch of squabbling females. I love the "other" site much better and I hope all of you stay away so youd don't ruin it for all of us over there.

 

[controlo]

This thread is exactly why I hate this forum more every time I visit. Everyone is just a bunch of squabbling females. I love the "other" site much better and I hope all of you stay away so youd don't ruin it for all of us over there.

trust me, i don't like arguing. and it doesn't matter what forum you go to, people argue. there is always someone who thinks they're right and wont rest until they've proven to the world that they are.

the car in the video runs as the graphs in the thread suggest it should. end.

 

[ericrapp]

Discourse is, Democracy in action, ms3. It doesn't need to be taken personally by either of the debaters. but argued logically and with some passion, might help to win the debate. A more civilized form of jousting when used correctly. And hate is a strong word.. Some arguments or DISCussion [ I'm not yelling I am just talking loud!] might do well to be private. I agree sir in some cases. Although, it is a natural thing to call bulls*** on a friends doing a little story telling.

 

[controlo]

Discourse is, Democracy in action, ms3. It doesn't need to be taken personally by either of the debaters. but argued logically and with some passion, might help to win the debate. A more civilized form of jousting when used correctly. And hate is a strong word.. Some arguments or DISCussion [ I'm not yelling I am just talking loud!] might do well to be private. I agree sir in some cases. Although, it is a natural thing to call bulls*** on a friends doing a little story telling.

i agree 100%. i just don't like when people start with an attitude. it makes it hard to continue nicely.

 

[happy and angry]

the car in the video runs as the graphs in the thread suggest it should. end.

But you didn't bring up the video to prove anything, remember?

i just don't like when people start with an attitude. it makes it hard to continue nicely.

"Boo hoo someone was mean to me on the internets!"

 

[controlo]

But you didn't bring up the video to prove anything, remember?"Boo hoo someone was mean to me on the internets!"

since when is a suggestion a proof? (stfu)

you're right. i'm wrong.

 

[Vord]

lol, I like the signature change!

anything on topic? sorry to have had a hand in mangling this thread.

 

[tsunami]

wow guys this thread sucks... keep the internet fighting to a minimum please!

 

[AutoXRacer]

OK, going back to the CP-E flash...

I will be getting this flash done in August since my car will be down for a week or so. And I will be dynoing pre and post flash to see if there is a difference since I can't tell anymore...

Here are the details:

Right now the flash is only a 100% throttle control which means instead of WOT on the stock map yielding 70% open...it will give you 100% open.

What does this mean to the stock MS3...nothing much really since you are already restricted by your stock intake, leaky BPV, restrictive TMIC, and exhaust. You will get gains, but not as much as that dyno sheet.

Now, if you start modding, you will reap full benefits. For example, I am only getting 70% of the benefits of my breathing mods. When I get flashed, my intake, TMIC, and exhaust will be yielding 100% off there usefulness. Basically, the more your modded, the more HP/TQ you'll get.

Its simple, even if you bolt-on a big turbo...you'll only be getting 70% of the power no matter what you bolt-on there...until you open the throttle plate 100%, you're only half-throttling it...

Now, regarding the product... Right now the intro price is $399 and you get discounts if you also purchase the Stand-back. The Stand-back is used to FINE tune your ECU for your specific mods.

The flash will be a generic bolt-on that anyone can use. Whether you have just an intake, big turbo, full bolt-ons, anyone can use it and feel a difference.

CP-E will continue to develop this flash to include customizable flashes that include increasing boost, improving drivability (open loop to close loop transition), a fix for the cold weather bug in stock tune, mild fuel and timing adjustment... All these added benefits will be free once you purchase the flash...the only downside is that you have to send them your ECU...if you are lucky enough to live near then you've got it made!!

I think this is a great product because it fits everyone...and its affordable.
A flash that fits everyone and if you need more tuning...there is the standback...

Oh and regarding the power limit on 1st and 2nd... Why would anyone want more... 1st and 2nd are useless if you are just spinning... (huh)
1st and 2nd are killing my times at the track cause I can't even half throttle it. (bang)

 

[gtlaw]

OK, going back to the CP-E flash...

I will be getting this flash done in August since my car will be down for a week or so. And I will be dynoing pre and post flash to see if there is a difference since I can't tell anymore...

Here are the details:

Right now the flash is only a 100% throttle control which means instead of WOT on the stock map yielding 70% open...it will give you 100% open.

What does this mean to the stock MS3...nothing much really since you are already restricted by your stock intake, leaky BPV, restrictive TMIC, and exhaust. You will get gains, but not as much as that dyno sheet.

Now, if you start modding, you will reap full benefits. For example, I am only getting 70% of the benefits of my breathing mods. When I get flashed, my intake, TMIC, and exhaust will be yielding 100% off there usefulness. Basically, the more your modded, the more HP/TQ you'll get.

Its simple, even if you bolt-on a big turbo...you'll only be getting 70% of the power no matter what you bolt-on there...until you open the throttle plate 100%, you're only half-throttling it...

Now, regarding the product... Right now the intro price is $399 and you get discounts if you also purchase the Stand-back. The Stand-back is used to FINE tune your ECU for your specific mods.

The flash will be a generic bolt-on that anyone can use. Whether you have just an intake, big turbo, full bolt-ons, anyone can use it and feel a difference.

CP-E will continue to develop this flash to include customizable flashes that include increasing boost, improving drivability (open loop to close loop transition), a fix for the cold weather bug in stock tune, mild fuel and timing adjustment... All these added benefits will be free once you purchase the flash...the only downside is that you have to send them your ECU...if you are lucky enough to live near then you've got it made!!

I think this is a great product because it fits everyone...and its affordable.
A flash that fits everyone and if you need more tuning...there is the standback...

Oh and regarding the power limit on 1st and 2nd... Why would anyone want more... 1st and 2nd are useless if you are just spinning... (huh)
1st and 2nd are killing my times at the track cause I can't even half throttle it. (bang)

oh it won't affect that well then I'm not interested. yes I do want more in 1st, and 2nd I would rather regulate wheel spin with my right foot than let mazdas computer not let me have any. this drive by wire crap is one of the things I hate most about this car

 

[happy and angry]

Oh and regarding the power limit on 1st and 2nd... Why would anyone want more... 1st and 2nd are useless if you are just spinning... (huh) 1st and 2nd are killing my times at the track cause I can't even half throttle it. (bang)

I'm not planning on a lot of power mods, mostly things to address wheel hop and traction (motor mounts, Cobb stage 2, Azenis). I'm going to get the Cobb SRI for a bit of a bump in power, but that might be it unless I decide to upgrade the BPV. I want those boost limiters in 1st and 2nd and a way to fully disable traction control for the same reason I want a way to allow myself to get full control over the throttle plate position: I want full control over my vehicle. I don't want to have zero power in a corner because the vehicle is afraid I'm going to lose traction before it even happens, I don't want to be limited in power in first and second artificially. I want to drive my car.

 

[lestat13]

oh it won't affect that well then I'm not interested. yes I do want more in 1st, and 2nd I would rather regulate wheel spin with my right foot than let mazdas computer not let me have any. this drive by wire crap is one of the things I hate most about this car

That's your opinion, of course.

I already have enough power in first and second gear, lose grip, and still waiting for my FMIC and DP situation to clear up. Once I'm all modded up if I can get full boost in first and second, it's going to take me FAR to long to get traction.

For me, 1 and 2 are fine, but 3+ I'll take everything you can throw at me!

 

[AutoXRacer]

Trust me, you don't need anymore power in 1st and 2nd. Its basically imposible to control wheelspin on this car. Its ON or its slow... With a simple intake, you will roast your tires. And the whole limited power while turning the steering wheel is not limited...I smoke my tires at the races all the time; I don't try to though.

You can disable traction control and the steering power limit by shutting down your DSC and TC... As far as I know, mine is totally disabled...at least it feels that way.

To eaches own...