LED turn signal question

[kosh2258]

Alternators

Actually, an alternator will put out voltage relative to how fast it is turning, the faster it turns the more it puts out so that's the reason for a voltage regulator, to keep the final output voltage within a set range.

Recall that voltage is the electric equivalent of pressure, current (amps) the equivalent of flow rate, and ohms the equivalent of resistance to flow. Incandesent bulbs have high resistance, which is what makes the filament glow, so the current has to push hard against this resistance. That resistance does back up all the way to the alternator.

As you put more load on the circuits the magnet field resistance increases at the alternator and it does take more energy to spin the stator against that resistance. Now, in todays electrical systems, the resistance variation probably doesn't amount to a whole lot since all the electronics in today's vehicles require a pretty stable power supply to keep from frying or misbehaving. But every little bit helps.

The move to solid state lighting is for durability, lowered power consumption resulting from less resistance, and increased fuel economy from the lowered power requirements.

In this case, the need for resistors to keep the flash speed normal negates the benefit of the LED's so there isn't much point in the swap.

Ted

 

[CX9 SportOwner]

Just what I was trying to explain in normal terms. Yes, you will increase the physical resistance, but only a TINY bit. Not enough to affect fuel economy, which is why I stated that there is no difference in MPG.

and it's not the resistance that makes a light bulb glow. It's the filament becoming excited and giving off photons of visible light. The resistance (load) is the electrons stopping to do a little work on the way. (Light)

If you have more question, e-mail me at MrScience@BS.com (braindead

 

[kosh2258]

Just what I was trying to explain in normal terms. Yes, you will increase the physical resistance, but only a TINY bit. Not enough to affect fuel economy, which is why I stated that there is no difference in MPG.

and it's not the resistance that makes a light bulb glow. It's the filament becoming excited and giving off photons of visible light. The resistance (load) is the electrons stopping to do a little work on the way. (Light)

If you have more question, e-mail me at MrScience@BS.com (braindead

So, you're saying that the resistance doesn't go up as the bulb heats up and that the friction of the current banging into and vibrating the tungsten atoms that produces the heat the electrons capture and release as photons isn't a resistance?

Anything that impedes the free flow of electrons would be a resistance. No friction (aka resistance), no heat. No heat, no release of photons.

Wikipedia:

"Incandescence occurs in light bulbs, because the filament resists the flow of electrons. This resistance heats the filament to a temperature where part of the radiation falls in the visible spectrum. The majority of radiation, however, is emitted in the invisible infrared part of the spectrum, which is why incandescent light bulbs are inefficient.[3]"


Your e-mail address and emoticon sumed things up fairly well as they relate to you.

 

[CX9 SportOwner]

So, you're saying that the resistance doesn't go up as the bulb heats up and that the friction of the current banging into and vibrating the tungsten atoms that produces the heat the electrons capture and release as photons isn't a resistance?

Anything that impedes the free flow of electrons would be a resistance. No friction (aka resistance), no heat. No heat, no release of photons.

Wikipedia:

"Incandescence occurs in light bulbs, because the filament resists the flow of electrons. This resistance heats the filament to a temperature where part of the radiation falls in the visible spectrum. The majority of radiation, however, is emitted in the invisible infrared part of the spectrum, which is why incandescent light bulbs are inefficient.[3]"


Your e-mail address and emoticon sumed things up fairly well as they relate to you.

It was a joke....MORON. I know a LOT more about the flow of electrons than you do. Did I not say that the resistance comes from the filament becoming excited and giving off light? READ before you start being an ass. And it's not 'friction'. And wikipedia isnt accurate, either. The electrons become charged, and when that charge falls back to normal, photons are emitted to produce light.

 

[mysleeper6]

Ducking my head in, hope I don't get hit by a flying chair...

OK, I chimed in earlier that some people in the MS6 threads have done a mod that lets our side markers function as turn signals, and that I thought it was working, sans any additional load resistors or anything else, even for people who have switched their side markers to LEDs. There was some discussion of polarized vs. non-polarized, yadda yadda, but I asked the guys at RPM (who sell the smoked lens LED sidemarkers) and they say the mod works with their LEDs.

So, in this instance anyway, there is a circuit that allows for incandescent bulbs and LEDs both to function. Speculation welcome.

 

[oroboy]

Ducking my head in, hope I don't get hit by a flying chair...

OK, I chimed in earlier that some people in the MS6 threads have done a mod that lets our side markers function as turn signals, and that I thought it was working, sans any additional load resistors or anything else, even for people who have switched their side markers to LEDs. There was some discussion of polarized vs. non-polarized, yadda yadda, but I asked the guys at RPM (who sell the smoked lens LED sidemarkers) and they say the mod works with their LEDs.

So, in this instance anyway, there is a circuit that allows for incandescent bulbs and LEDs both to function. Speculation welcome.

Well, thanks for going through all that trouble to get info guy... I appreciate that. I finally got my LED turnsignals in on Friday, and as I expected, they flashed at a higher rate. What I didn't expect is that when I tested the 4-way flashers, the LED's flashed at the normal rate... so that probably means that there's another relay that handles the hazard lights.

@l-miwa, I don't want to believe that load resistors are my only option... at least not just yet. I want to take appart the dash, find the relay making the clicking sound, and see if I can switch it out with an electronic blinker fix.

 

[CX9 SportOwner]

Well, thanks for going through all that trouble to get info guy... I appreciate that. I finally got my LED turnsignals in on Friday, and as I expected, they flashed at a higher rate. What I didn't expect is that when I tested the 4-way flashers, the LED's flashed at the normal rate... so that probably means that there's another relay that handles the hazard lights.

@l-miwa, I don't want to believe that load resistors are my only option... at least not just yet. I want to take appart the dash, find the relay making the clicking sound, and see if I can switch it out with an electronic blinker fix.

You wont find it. The clicking is fake, generated by the computer thru the left front speaker

 

[kosh2258]

It was a joke....MORON. I know a LOT more about the flow of electrons than you do. Did I not say that the resistance comes from the filament becoming excited and giving off light? READ before you start being an ass. And it's not 'friction'. And wikipedia isnt accurate, either. The electrons become charged, and when that charge falls back to normal, photons are emitted to produce light.

Um, no, you didn't: "and it's not the resistance that makes a light bulb glow. It's the filament becoming excited and giving off photons of visible light."

If you think Wikipedia is off base, fine, you have the option of going there and correcting the entry. I'd encourage you to do so if you feel it's that inaccurate or misleading.

To put the process in simplist terms, it's the conversion of electrical energy into heat energy to a level sufficient to generate radiation in the visible spectrum. The more resistant the filament is, and the higher the heat generated, the more efficient the bulb becomes in terms of emitting light.
Gases like Halogen and Xenon reflect tungsten atoms that may be tossed off in the process back towards the filament so they rebond with filament rather than depositing on the glass or quartz bulb . The result is that the bulbs can operate at higher temperatures and emit more light than conventional bulbs without self destructing.
Using "friction" was a lousy analogy for what the process really is - electrons banging into atoms causing them to move and in turn generate heat and photons (the captive electron dumping the momentary excess charge it got from the collision).

As for my being an ass, you do a fairly good job of it yourself from time to time being critical of other peoples choices and preferences, as well as the random personal afronts you lob. So, I interpreted your e-mail addy and brain dead emoticon as a poke at me for my inaccurate statement. If that makes me a moron, so be it.

I'm all for disseminating accurate information and killing off the urban legend BS that pervades the Internet, I just don't feel a need to offend people doing it along the way.

Your sense of humor loses something in translation and I'm not the first one to notice that around here.

 

[SKiZZ]

Well, thanks for going through all that trouble to get info guy... I appreciate that. I finally got my LED turnsignals in on Friday, and as I expected, they flashed at a higher rate. What I didn't expect is that when I tested the 4-way flashers, the LED's flashed at the normal rate... so that probably means that there's another relay that handles the hazard lights.

@l-miwa, I don't want to believe that load resistors are my only option... at least not just yet. I want to take appart the dash, find the relay making the clicking sound, and see if I can switch it out with an electronic blinker fix.

Any resolve to this? I wanna order all the LED's I could ever need this weekend.

 

[CX9 SportOwner]

Im curious why the makers dont add load to these to make them equal to filament bulbs built in

 

[SKiZZ]

Some higher end LED's do this. There quite expensive though. I believe LEDtronics makes these and their $25 a piece for yellow.

 

[JayR]

FWIW, I added LED turn signals in my Audi A4 years ago... (B5 A4 2001). I had to wire resistors in line with the bulb harness. It was simple, took 5 minutes, and I bought everything at radioshack. They blinked normally for as long as I had the car.

 

[CX9 SportOwner]

more BS from makers of new products. there is nothing to make LED bulbs WITH proper load be significantly more expensive than a standard bulb.

 

[cxgreat]

Where is everyone putting the resistors? I mean since it is for a turn signal it would not be a long duration. I just have a problem spending $15 to get load resistors. I may have to make a visit to RatShack and see if I can get an alternative. This should be able to be done for about $5 with t connectors included.

 

[Craig-CX9]

Run quickly.. RatShack may not carry the little pieces and parts for much longer. I went in there the other day looking for a battery holder and things are sparse.
Craig

 

[SydneyGuy]

I just have a problem spending $15 to get load resistors.

Just save the money and spend it on a replacement bulb if it ever fails. I've changed a few brake light bulbs over the years but I have never had to replace a turn signal bulb. Chances are you will never have to replace one either so it will cost you nothing. For $15 you can probably change the bulb 5 times which I would think is VERY unlikely over the normal life of a car.

 

[Mazda3s owner]

There is no load difference on the engine. The engine turns the alternator the same regardless. The regulator adjusts the output based on what the load is, and dumps the rest as heat.

It sounds like too much of a hassle. I might just go with PIAA lights all the way around.

 

[9kfever]

Anyone successfully do this? What about the ones in the side mirrors?

 

[mysleeper6]

Hey guys, if you'll note the dates, this thread is over three years old. There may very well be solutions now that will work for your specific application. I have LED flashers on the rear corners of my Speed6 that were plug and play, no resistor or other modification needed.

 

[CX9Zoom]

Here is one solution (quite expensive thought) :

http://www.extremebrightleds.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1156-27SMD-EF-A