Best strut/$$$ option for MSP
- Thread starter livelyjay
- Start date
Not 100% positive, but I think it's because the Konis have a larger shaft diameter which means you have to modify the upper mount which is illegal.
negative...
13.5.C said:
lol shafts... enlarging holes... that's all I've got
(yes, it's 45 minutes passed my bedtime
)negative...
lol shafts enlarging holes...
(yes, it's 45 minutes passed my bedtime
I need to stay out of these rules questions. Especially about anything other than Street Prepared.
LOL it's late, you get a bye on this one.
Actually, I enjoy the rules debates that happen on these and other forums (ie, the informed ones, not the "my car has this and it should be legal" ones). It sharpens my understanding of not just the rules, but why they are that way, and how to interpret them
The problem with the Koni inserts is the shaft length.
IIRC the inserts that fit in the stock shock are all to short so you need a wet build to be stock legal.
Read the MSP in DS thread starting about post #20
IIRC the inserts that fit in the stock shock are all to short so you need a wet build to be stock legal.
Read the MSP in DS thread starting about post #20
There's the rule/explanation I was looking for. So I guess I'll just sit on the idea for now. $1600 for a wet build is pretty damn expensive when I can buy AWRs for that much. Although staying in stock class that's the only money I'll have to spend other than brakes and tires. I guess a good byproduct of the wet build is that the stock strut housings would then have the gland nut installed, so if I went STX or DSP route later down the road I could just drop in the Koni inserts and call it a day.
ah, there you go
gavin_leslie
Member
All one needs to be stock legal is a simple spacer in the stock bodies. The spacer makes up the neccessary length to have the full extended length of the complete strut unit within the 1" rule.
heres my version of things.
http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-faq-suspension/144248-koni-insert-installation.html
Gavin
heres my version of things.
http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-faq-suspension/144248-koni-insert-installation.html
Gavin
Can anyone else confirm this? If all you need is to keep the extended shaft length within 1" then this can be done. Only issue I see is the readily available RACE inserts don't bolt from the bottom like the ones in your post, they need a gland nut, which needs strut body material to be threaded into. Too much spacer could yield not enough gland nut threading to hold the insert into place.
It sounds so simple and would work for that problem....
I wonder if the protege strut bodies are long enough to do that to.
Reading now I see Koni talking about it on their web site.
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gavin_leslie
Member
Ive been running my GS car in this configuration for the last couple of years which included a couple national tours. Its legal.
Cant remember when and where all of this was sorted out (maybe miata.net?). I think the original issue was to do with the fact that some/most full body shocks were dimensionally different than stock in terms of body length and extended shaft length. It all fell under the 1" rule apparently and struts would be the same.
Think I also remember a similar question on sccaforums to the same from a porsche owner using the RACE inserts. Same deal, the body length and shaft length were different from stock, but the overall length of both units would be within the 1" margin.
The RACE inserts are very nice. I thought about them years ago, but clearly (for SA Konis at least) they arent the only game in town.
EDIT: found the sccaforum post.. http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/173585.aspx PS: John Stimpson (orthonormal) is on the SAC and Hollis was on the SEB(but everyone knows that)
Gavin
Cant remember when and where all of this was sorted out (maybe miata.net?). I think the original issue was to do with the fact that some/most full body shocks were dimensionally different than stock in terms of body length and extended shaft length. It all fell under the 1" rule apparently and struts would be the same.
Think I also remember a similar question on sccaforums to the same from a porsche owner using the RACE inserts. Same deal, the body length and shaft length were different from stock, but the overall length of both units would be within the 1" margin.
The RACE inserts are very nice. I thought about them years ago, but clearly (for SA Konis at least) they arent the only game in town.
EDIT: found the sccaforum post.. http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/173585.aspx PS: John Stimpson (orthonormal) is on the SAC and Hollis was on the SEB(but everyone knows that)
Gavin
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gavin_leslie
Member
eh? Not sure I follow wrt shaft length.
In my particular application where the strut was 2" longer than the insert, after spacing there was a 1" shortfall for shaft length extension. The protege uses a strut that is 1" shorter than my application thus there is less to be made up for by a spacer. The loss of 1" of droop travel was a non-issue in an autocross setting(and everywhere else). I can only imagine an "issue" were I to run off-road rallies.
What is the issue you see here?
Gavin
In my particular application where the strut was 2" longer than the insert, after spacing there was a 1" shortfall for shaft length extension. The protege uses a strut that is 1" shorter than my application thus there is less to be made up for by a spacer. The loss of 1" of droop travel was a non-issue in an autocross setting(and everywhere else). I can only imagine an "issue" were I to run off-road rallies.
What is the issue you see here?
Gavin
gavin_leslie
Member
DOH! (hand)
See what happens when you dont sleep for 24hrs? (it was a great party though...er....thats my excuse)
Gavin
See what happens when you dont sleep for 24hrs? (it was a great party though...er....thats my excuse)
Gavin
The Protege strut bodies likely will not be long enough for the RACE inserts because of the need to use a gland nut for installation. The only solution for the RACE insert is to weld some sort of threaded collar onto the strut body to lengthen it, put a spacer under the race insert, then top it off with a pipe cap.
The inserts suggested by Gavin are indeed available from shox.com for $162.40 each with free shipping. A spacer and bolt combination could easily be used in the Protege strut body to achieve the necessary extended piston length (yeah, that's right, not stooping to your level and using the shaft word) within 1" of stock. It might even be the case where the insert is an acceptable length right off the bat.
Gavin, how do your suggested inserts compare to the RACE inserts? It really doesn't matter that much because any Koni will be better than stock Tokicos.
Anyone have stock MSP Tokicos laying around to get measurements?
According to Gavin's specs the front Euro inserts are 17.7" long while the rears are 21.45". Just wondering how that measures up to the stock MSP struts. The Euro fronts are 2" shorter than the RACE inserts while the rears are 0.2" longer than RACE inserts.
According to Gavin's specs the front Euro inserts are 17.7" long while the rears are 21.45". Just wondering how that measures up to the stock MSP struts. The Euro fronts are 2" shorter than the RACE inserts while the rears are 0.2" longer than RACE inserts.
