I just saw Kevin Van Natton dyno his brand new SRT4 Caliber

[SwampAss]

Out of the box it's anyone's game. Few people who care and have some level of disposable income will leave theirs stock. Which platform is better? I think the MS3 is better in the regard of being more appealing from the looks standpoint (my opinion) and has an honest to gosh LSD.

We should all thank Dodge for the Neon SRT4. Without it, I doubt we'd be seeing 260ish hp hatchbacks/sedans under 25k.

The new SRT4 is going to make an interesting market segment even more so.

 

[happy and angry]

http://stage.caranddriver.com/compa...r-srt4-v-mazdaspeed-3-v-volvo-c30.html?al=144

 

[fastdreams]

Standard Mopar fare. Ugly exterior, ugly uncomfortable shoddy interior, questionable build quality, but amazing motor. So far, the only Mopar product to come out in the past 20 years to even hold my interest for more than five seconds is the Viper, but that is based on the raw, unmittigated, kick your ass in the head power factor.

Based on the looks/noise/numbers factor, the SRT devision stopped being cars long ago. Now they are four wheeled penis extensions (i.e. SRT-8 and SRT-10s)

LOL! Put down the haterade. Sounds to me like you want to hate it no matter how good it may be. If the SRT-4 is a "penis extension" then what is the MS3?

You have that kind of attitude that certain Porsche owners and some BMW owners are known to exude...but I could have sworn I was in a Mazda forum. Interesting.

Oh well, we all have our opinions. I know lots of people that do the same thing, especially when they are passionate about their chosen brand.

 

[clos561]

i stil havent seen one on the road...im so anxious(flash)

edit - i jsut found this on edmunds...its probably old but


The Numbers Game
SRT vehicles always make impressive power numbers, so we got straight to the bottom of the Caliber's power claims by heading for the Dynojet chassis dyno at MD Automotive in Westminster, California. The Caliber's 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine is rated at a class-leading 285 horsepower, while its 265 pound-feet of torque is 15 lb-ft less than the Mazdaspeed 3. It redlines at 6,500 rpm and puts the power down through a six-speed transaxle driving the front wheels.

It didn't disappoint. Laying down three consistent pulls, it made 281 hp and 261 lb-ft of torque at the wheels, demonstrating that its power and torque ratings are quite conservative.

It also reinforced the fact that this five-door sends more power to the road than a long list of cars that cost twice as much.

 

[CX-7owner]

I just know it's going to have a ton of first year problems and recalls.

 

[boostdog]

I just know it's going to have a ton of first year problems and recalls.

and the ms3 didn't either??...anyone kick your door to break into it or have you engine fall out due to the motor mounts? and that's just to name a few...comeon every car has issues the 1st year in production.(hear ya)

 

[clos561]

see how the caliber redlines at 6500? i believe they have full power to redline unlike us(correct me if im wrong, i never drove one)...if the ms3 came with full power to redline it could produce those numbers stock just as easily. thats almost 1k rpms we are short of.

 

[Sierra117]

LOL! Put down the haterade. Sounds to me like you want to hate it no matter how good it may be. If the SRT-4 is a "penis extension" then what is the MS3?

You have that kind of attitude that certain Porsche owners and some BMW owners are known to exude...but I could have sworn I was in a Mazda forum. Interesting.

Oh well, we all have our opinions. I know lots of people that do the same thing, especially when they are passionate about their chosen brand.

Haterade? I said the thing had an amazing motor, which so far, I've found to be true of every Mopar vehicle I've ever driven (SRT-4 and SRT-6, a few R/T Chargers, an SRT-8 Charger, an SRT-8 300C, and a good bit of shot gun time in the last gen Viper drop top). When it comes to flat out power production, the only motor I've ever seen with anywhere near the potential of the V10 used in the Vipers and SRT-10 truck is the 2JZ-GTE. As much as I love the SBC and think it is the one motor we all owe quite a bit too, you don't see a bunch of 1000+whp 'Vettes and F Bodies rolling around, at least not as many 1000+whp Vipers and Supras.

However, unlike most out there, I'll be the first to call out the flaws on any car. And if the Caliber is like any other SRT vehicle I have driven or ridden in, the interior is flat out rubish, the car will fell like it is trying to shake itself to death, and, sans the Viper, it looks like it was designed by a blind child with autism.

If it makes you feel better and less butt hurt that I called out the SRT, I'll do the same with the MS3. Its wrong wheel drive, the gears are to short and shift feel is to vauge, and the fuel pump is a major weak point.

I'm just pointing out that while power production is very nice with these cars, when taking a look at the whole package, I don't find it all that appealing. Hence the penis extension comment. The domestic automakers, while putting out good power from their version of hopped up econo boxes (Cobalt SS, SRT-4, Ford...well...never mind), they are missing out on the entirity of the package, which is what attracted me to the MS3.

Its not the most powerful, its not the best in the twisties, but it does both very well with a very nice interior (not BMW, Mercedes, or Audi nice, but very nice still) and excellent street maners.

 

[Sierra117]

see how the caliber redlines at 6500? i believe they have full power to redline unlike us(correct me if im wrong, i never drove one)...if the ms3 came with full power to redline it could produce those numbers stock just as easily. thats almost 1k rpms we are short of.

(mswerd)

Look at the Ausie super Mazdaspeed3. It was what, basically a Mazda ECU flash, and it made a good bit more power.

 

[happy and angry]

Maybe you guys should read the link I posted. It's a Car and Driver comparison road test of the '08 Caliber SRT4, the '08 Volvo C30, the '07 Mazdaspeed3, and the '08 WRX. I'll even post it again.

http://stage.caranddriver.com/compa...r-srt4-v-mazdaspeed-3-v-volvo-c30.html?al=144

 

[fastdreams]

Haterade? I said the thing had an amazing motor, which so far, I've found to be true of every Mopar vehicle I've ever driven (SRT-4 and SRT-6, a few R/T Chargers, an SRT-8 Charger, an SRT-8 300C, and a good bit of shot gun time in the last gen Viper drop top). When it comes to flat out power production, the only motor I've ever seen with anywhere near the potential of the V10 used in the Vipers and SRT-10 truck is the 2JZ-GTE. As much as I love the SBC and think it is the one motor we all owe quite a bit too, you don't see a bunch of 1000+whp 'Vettes and F Bodies rolling around, at least not as many 1000+whp Vipers and Supras.

However, unlike most out there, I'll be the first to call out the flaws on any car. And if the Caliber is like any other SRT vehicle I have driven or ridden in, the interior is flat out rubish, the car will fell like it is trying to shake itself to death, and, sans the Viper, it looks like it was designed by a blind child with autism.

If it makes you feel better and less butt hurt that I called out the SRT, I'll do the same with the MS3. Its wrong wheel drive, the gears are to short and shift feel is to vauge, and the fuel pump is a major weak point.

I'm just pointing out that while power production is very nice with these cars, when taking a look at the whole package, I don't find it all that appealing. Hence the penis extension comment. The domestic automakers, while putting out good power from their version of hopped up econo boxes (Cobalt SS, SRT-4, Ford...well...never mind), they are missing out on the entirity of the package, which is what attracted me to the MS3.

Its not the most powerful, its not the best in the twisties, but it does both very well with a very nice interior (not BMW, Mercedes, or Audi nice, but very nice still) and excellent street maners.

Hey thanks for responding. You're probably correct that the new SRT-4 will follow the trend, but you call it out without having seen one in person. I guess I'm doing the opposite by singing it's praises without having experienced one directly.

Maybe my perception of your post was a bit off from what you meant, because it sounded more like fanboy hate than an honest opinion <shrug> Hard to tell the sentiment from text.

My butt is not hurt by anyone's opinion! In fact I had/still have a smile on my face because I love these hot hatches, and talking about them is fun.

So you know where I'm coming from:
Honestly I only slightly care about fit and finish, interior quality in this segment. I'm glad the Mazda is decent, but that is not why I got this car. If that was a bigger concern for me I'd be in the GTI, or better yet the Audi A3. Worlds better refinement, fit and finish. The higher payment for the A3, and the likely higher maintenance cost doesn't bother me because I'm an Audi fan anyway But I just don't care about that enough. The one thing that excites me about the Caliber SRT4 is the 8:22 time at the 'ring. The MS3 'ring video in 8:38 practically sold me on the spot on the MS3, it was a downhill decision from there. I'm going to do my best to wear this thing out at the track in '08

 

[clos561]

ive read that..my point is that mazda tuned the car extremely conservative for a "all around " package like some have stated in this thread..yea that "extreme" ms3 in europe was putting down 290hp 305 tq with a flash and catback. and from what i read the caliber comes with a 3 inch exhaust, which is bigger than our 2.5 inch. the caliber will be fast out of the box but my biggest interest is to see what the STOCK specs are. Fast car....yes

 

[fastdreams]

That C&D article is telling, but they whine about things I don't care about in what I think of as cheap performance cars.

What I want to know is simply this:

What happens at the track when I put my helmet on and go for broke?

 

[Sierra117]

Hey thanks for responding. You're probably correct that the new SRT-4 will follow the trend, but you call it out without having seen one in person. I guess I'm doing the opposite by singing it's praises without having experienced one directly.

Sight wise, I think its just the standard Caliber with some bigger wheels and tac on buddy bits, much like the Speed3. Seat time, well, I have a few friends who are SRT nuts, so I'm sure I'll get a chance here soon enough. I work for GM, though, so wrong company for the ride and drive fun stuff.

Maybe my perception of your post was a bit off from what you meant, because it sounded more like fanboy hate than an honest opinion <shrug> Hard to tell the sentiment from text.

Indeed, hard to infer inflection and tone and such via text.

So you know where I'm coming from:
Honestly I only slightly care about fit and finish, interior quality in this segment. I'm glad the Mazda is decent, but that is not why I got this car. If that was a bigger concern for me I'd be in the GTI, or better yet the Audi A3. Worlds better refinement, fit and finish. The higher payment for the A3, and the likely higher maintenance cost doesn't bother me because I'm an Audi fan anyway But I just don't care about that enough. The one thing that excites me about the Caliber SRT4 is the 8:22 time at the 'ring. The MS3 'ring video in 8:38 practically sold me on the spot on the MS3, it was a downhill decision from there. I'm going to do my best to wear this thing out at the track in '08

I came to the Mazda from BMW, and interior fit and finish as always been important for me. Not on the imidiate short list, but I like it. The way I've always seen it is that you have to sit inside it, so you might as well be comfy. I look mostly for actual power production (such as how it comes into power, not numbers), as well as street manerisms. Handling is up there, but not the number one reason because, well, I don't drive the 'Ring to work everyday, lol.

I wont talk about how I look at it from a racing standpoint, though, because new forum rules forbid it as such.

 

[mikeyb]

why is this in the auto news forum?

 

[happy and angry]

That C&D article is telling, but they whine about things I don't care about in what I think of as cheap performance cars.

What I want to know is simply this:

What happens at the track when I put my helmet on and go for broke?

Go back and read the article. At the bottom of each car-specific section you can click on a link to the individual test results for each vehicle and check out 0 - 60 times, lateral corner, slalom times, rolling starts, 1/4 mile times, etc, and give you a good idea how they handle on a track.

 

[fastdreams]

I came to the Mazda from BMW, and interior fit and finish as always been important for me. Not on the imidiate short list, but I like it.

Good points. I came from Audi - still have one. Funny thing my MS3 seats are more comfortable than my S4 seats. But the driving experience in the Audi, I still love it.

I think I'm having a 30-something crisis. I'm going backwards to the type of cars I wanted in my teens and early 20's. I'm lucky in that I take very fun backroads to work everyday. I probably should have bought a $3k miata instead of a new MS3, but the power called to me.

 

[fastdreams]

Go back and read the article. At the bottom of each car-specific section you can click on a link to the individual test results for each vehicle and check out 0 - 60 times, lateral corner, slalom times, rolling starts, 1/4 mile times, etc, and give you a good idea how they handle on a track.

I noticed that. I'll wait for more tests before I call that C&D article gospel. C&D performance testing does not jive with the reality of what the car did at the Nurburgring.

The 'ring is not gospel either but it does show what a car is truly capable of at a hardcore track. 16 seconds faster than the MS3 is a rather large margin. Judging from C&D's results, I'd bench race guess that the MS3 is a better autoxer than the caliber SRT4 - and that depending on what type of track it is, it will be a drivers race on the tighter shorter tracks, and advantage SRT4 at longer more open tracks. <shrug> It's all BS till we see some proper shootouts.

 

[palerider]

He's not the 1st to dyno the csrt ...darrell cox just dynoed his and got about the same results. streefire did to but used 89 octane and got low results..also there is a vid on the caliberforums site showing modern performance's csrt beating a modded vw gti. The thing is going to be a little beast!

http://www.caliberforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5111&highlight=darrell+cox

Bro.... read my first post... It was Darrell Coxs dyno that I was at last night, at Turbo Tune, in Greensboro, NC. He posted on the srtforums later that night..... the thread above.

Thats the reasons this car and the Darrell Cox car "got about the same results"...lol.

BTW... Mark Riley is working on my car as we speak. He said that the top number they achieved on the Caliber, was 273whp ...The posted dyno says 267 or something...BUT...

that might have been with the air filter removed, among other things(I dont know what..but no parts were added)!!!!

Stock run was initially in the 230's before they started tweaking it. I'll add more later. Their supposedly bringing it back up for more dyno time tonight. They made 37 pulls last night...haha.

BTW.... anybody know why this thread got moved?

 

[happy and angry]

Handling at the 'ring is sort of a unique situation. I know people that have gone to Nurburgring, and they told me the roads are incredibly rough in a lot of places. The "wallowing" in the corners that C&D sees on a regular track would actually be a helpful quality on the 'ring, which really wants a slightly softer suspension because of the road conditions. The MS3, on the other hand, is fairly stiff, which means when it hits some of the rough stuff may have been losing some contact with the ground as tires went over bumps, which is difficult to handle on that course.

Also, there is the issue of straight up power. If the SRT4 is testing at the wheels like this thread starts off describing, we're down in power on the Caliber, and there are a LOT of long, very fast straights on the 'ring. It also has slightly wider tires stock, and may have come with better rubber than the Potenzas (I'm not sure). It's got a better top end on us, which matters on the 'ring.

What do you want to see in a proper shootout? If you take it to a track, depending on the track design one car or the other may have an edge (like I think the Caliber has for the 'ring - this isn't me saying the car is slow, just that it sounds like the handling characteristics are suited for that circuit in a few ways the Mazda's aren't). Straight line speed and overall handling are tested in that article. It's not gospel, but it's a good comparison if you look at the numbers and ignore the babble about interiors. I want to see how gearing might come into play and where you hit peak torque in the Caliber, but I know for sheer cornering grip we have an edge, same with braking.