PG Pump Installed

[laloosh]

a/f and knock cant be monitored...hence the reason why i dont think the standback is as big of a deal as every1 makes it out to be...maybe im just spoiled by having friends who own kpro

 

[driver311]

ill wait for something cheaper

 

[Haltech]

indeed. but with decreased temperatures you'll see less timing pulled initially.

Actually, as the temps decrease, the computer will add timing. This is why more people blow their cars up in winter/spring than in summer and fall. Ive seen Mustangs and Lightnings advance timing more than 8 degrees in weather under 60F. 12 Degrees at 40F. Thats a lot of fricken timing and it doesnt matter what your computer chip was programmed at, the ECU is going to add it anyways. This is the downside of chips compared to a piggybacks.

 

[Aricjm15]

The factory ECU will not add timing with the addition of meth. There is no sensor after the point of where you should be adding meth for the ecu to see the change.
We dyno tested a Ms6 with meth and it showed almost no gain without tuning.

 

[Aricjm15]

This is the downside of chips compared to a piggybacks.

All of the current engine management systems for these cars are at the mercy of the stock ecu when it comes to both timing and fuel. If the factory ecu decides to add timing when it is cold it will do so and neither the Xede or Standback can do anything about it.
Neither unit has the ability to change timing or fuel based on outside temperature.

You can tune each unit to pull or add timing at a specific boost and Rpm, but only as a percentage of what the factory ecu is putting in.

Mazda tends to add more fuel in their tunes when it gets cold then timing. Adding more timing when the air is colder/denser is not normally something someone who cares for their motor would do.

 

[Craighjr]

ill wait for something cheaper

A cheaper tuning solution? Standback is the cheapest?

 

[cornflaykes]

a/f and knock cant be monitored...hence the reason why i dont think the standback is as big of a deal as every1 makes it out to be...maybe im just spoiled by having friends who own kpro

I agree and K-Pro is the poop!!! K-pro can do it all.

I am going to stick with EBC, BCK, and purchase the turbo xs knock lite..
I just need to figure out if the timing gets advanced when the more fuel is added at higher boost levels.

 

[Haltech]

The factory ECU will not add timing with the addition of meth. There is no sensor after the point of where you should be adding meth for the ecu to see the change.
We dyno tested a Ms6 with meth and it showed almost no gain without tuning.

So youre telling me that a MS6 had no gains from running meth with cooler air charges? I find that an interesting discovery.

 

[Haltech]

All of the current engine management systems for these cars are at the mercy of the stock ecu when it comes to both timing and fuel. If the factory ecu decides to add timing when it is cold it will do so and neither the Xede or Standback can do anything about it.
Neither unit has the ability to change timing or fuel based on outside temperature.

You can tune each unit to pull or add timing at a specific boost and Rpm, but only as a percentage of what the factory ecu is putting in.

Mazda tends to add more fuel in their tunes when it gets cold then timing. Adding more timing when the air is colder/denser is not normally something someone who cares for their motor would do.

My experiences with piggybacks are a little different. Generally, you tap the lines and intercept them. The Xede and Standback should be able to control any advanced timing and overide it based on the parameters set in the unit. Have you recorded any datalogs that shows either piggy unit being ignored and the Mazda ECU adding timing anyways? This is actually quite scary if true (boom05)

 

[Haltech]

I agree and K-Pro is the poop!!! K-pro can do it all.

I am going to stick with EBC, BCK, and purchase the turbo xs knock lite..
I just need to figure out if the timing gets advanced when the more fuel is added at higher boost levels.

Why not purchase the Auto Ingenuitysoftware at RPM to monitor the motor to see whats actually happening.

 

[Aricjm15]

It shows almost not gains because "chemical cooling" does not cool the air that much, it is just a means to prevent detonation and is not meant to be anything more. You can read more on Snow performance's website.

Both the Xede and Standback, or any interceptor system for that matter modify signals to the factory ecu to get the result they want. The factory computer then decides how it wants to run the car based off of those signals. This is why the factory computer can still trigger a fuel cut/ignition cut with either system. Like I said before both systems can only change fuel or timing based off of the factory cumputer's output.

The standback and xede change the crank trigger output to get the timing change. This is pre ECU so if the decides to add timing it will.

The Xede changes the signal from the mass airflow to control fuel. This is done pre ecu. If the ecu decides to dump or pull 100% of the fuel it will.
The Standback changes the throttle position sensor signal to control fuel. Same as the Xede if the ecu wants to pull or add fuel it will.

Both systems have trouble tuning at partial throttle because the factory ecu is set to run at 14.7:1. Trying to have either system lean out at partial throttle the ecu will learn around it back to the 14.7 up to a point then will throw a lean code and dump fuel like crazy.

 

[Haltech]

It shows almost not gains because "chemical cooling" does not cool the air that much, it is just a means to prevent detonation and is not meant to be anything more. You can read more on Snow performance's website.

Both the Xede and Standback, or any interceptor system for that matter modify signals to the factory ecu to get the result they want. The factory computer then decides how it wants to run the car based off of those signals. This is why the factory computer can still trigger a fuel cut/ignition cut with either system. Like I said before both systems can only change fuel or timing based off of the factory cumputer's output.

The standback and xede change the crank trigger output to get the timing change. This is pre ECU so if the decides to add timing it will.

The Xede changes the signal from the mass airflow to control fuel. This is done pre ecu. If the ecu decides to dump or pull 100% of the fuel it will.
The Standback changes the throttle position sensor signal to control fuel. Same as the Xede if the ecu wants to pull or add fuel it will.

Both systems have trouble tuning at partial throttle because the factory ecu is set to run at 14.7:1. Trying to have either system lean out at partial throttle the ecu will learn around it back to the 14.7 up to a point then will throw a lean code and dump fuel like crazy.

Well im quite aware how Methanol works since ive been using it for years on my other vehicles, generally getting between 25-32 hp pre-tune and 55-74 hp after the tune. I just find it odd that the car is showing no gains at all from its use pre-tune.

Looks like neither piggyback is a solution to actually tuning these cars... esp when going larger turbo and needing to dial the tune in,.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Well im quite aware how Methanol works since ive been using it for years on my other vehicles, generally getting between 25-32 hp pre-tune and 55-74 hp after the tune. I just find it odd that the car is showing no gains at all from its use pre-tune.

Looks like neither piggyback is a solution to actually tuning these cars... esp when going larger turbo and needing to dial the tune in,.

really the best tuning solution would be a standalone, bar none. then you have absolute control without external interference. you will not pass emissions and you will have to devise your own maps. for every give there is a take.

either piggyback will suffice for most people on these cars i think. once you max out the MAF sensor (5v) you'll need to do something else.

 

[mrlilguy157]

once you max out the MAF sensor (5v) you'll need to do something else.

couldn't you just get a bigger MAF housing and a sensor calibrated for it?

 

[Captain KRM P5]

thats plausible, yes

 

[Craighjr]

thats plausible, yes

Hey Ken I spoke to you the other day about the back ordered Cobb intakes and fuel pumps. Just to clarify if I send my pump to you it is only 349 (or 399) to get it upgraded right. I know I asked about the cheapest pump and you said 750 or something. I also think I would like to buy that Cobb intake but could you measure one thing on it for me beforehand? I would like to know the actual size of the maf housing before I spent more money on intakes that are gunna give me lean codes.

 

[driver311]

A cheaper tuning solution? Standback is the cheapest?

Its not cheaper than the safc neo i plan on putting on it. I dont see any reason why it wont work. Time will tell. (shady)

 

[fourthmeal]

Hey Ken I spoke to you the other day about the back ordered Cobb intakes and fuel pumps. Just to clarify if I send my pump to you it is only 349 (or 399) to get it upgraded right. I know I asked about the cheapest pump and you said 750 or something. I also think I would like to buy that Cobb intake but could you measure one thing on it for me beforehand? I would like to know the actual size of the maf housing before I spent more money on intakes that are gunna give me lean codes.

I think you can pose the question on the Cobb Forum for what the MAF housing size is, but if I remember it is exactly as stock.

 

[Craighjr]

Its not cheaper than the safc neo i plan on putting on it. I dont see any reason why it wont work. Time will tell. (shady)

Ok pay 350-370 for 16 points of fuel adjustment and no timing control.

I think you can pose the question on the Cobb Forum for what the MAF housing size is, but if I remember it is exactly as stock.

Yeah I should. I sort of thought it would be a trade secret thing and Figured If Ken had one he could check it for curosity.

 

[mrlilguy157]

thats plausible, yes

Cool. I hate to always compare to the VAG world, but when going BT it was always a must t step up from the 1.8t MAF housing and sensor to the VR6 maf, or even the S4 maf - they're an inch bigger in diameter.