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Water in Engine Bay?
- Thread starter Bowman
- Start date
Well went out after work and fired the car up. It started acting like it was stumbling for a little bit and then the rpms finally caught and held fine. It acted completely fine, aside from the exhaust smelling a bit rich. Its weird how it only runs bad most of the time, not all of the time. Didn't get to mess with the egr due to floridas lovely weather deciding to rain again. I also stopped at a lube shop and tried getting some answer just to see what they would say. They'll charge $100 to diagnose it and they'll guarantee what they say is wrong with it will fix the problem. But then after I explained what my symptoms were they say there sure it's the timing belt. My car doesn't have any signs of it being that. At least to my knowledge. I've been screwed over one too many times by places like that so its either find someone I can trust. Or keep taking stabs at it myself.
Jasonjames
Member
- :
- Mazda 2002 BJ Astina 323 1.8 L
With all due respect to the lube-guys, cam timing belts dont give symptoms that *come and go*. Once the cam(s) timing slips, it can only get worse, not suddenly reverse back to where it should be.
If you buy yourself a Ignition timing light, you can look at the engine's timing yourself. They aren't all that expensive. You hook the light's red and black wires [which come with alligator clips] to the battery +-ve and --ve posts. That leaves the spring on the end of the spark-type lead from the light, to be connected to number 1 spark-plug. Start car, press light's trigger [its shaped like a gun usually] aim the flashing high-intensity light at the engine's crank-shaft pulley. The notches will appear steady when the engine is idling. If they are moving bacck and forth, you have unstable ignition timing.
This is one thing which most can do to eliminate ign-timing as a cause of the rough running. If it was OK, I'd get the mixture checked by anyone who has an Exhaust gas analyser,..or failing that use a digital volt-meter on the O2 sensors. Idealy tho, If the EGAnalyser indicates the mixture is wrong, and especially its moving around,..but the O2 sensor(s) indicate its steady, it points to the O2 sensor being nutted. This is just an indication on how I'd go about sussing the engine if it was mine. Perhaps you could hire these things?
Because its a turbo, inlet manifold vacuum will be different to a NA donk. Under power, it would go positive [pressure], at idle it'd be negative or vacuum.
JJ
If you buy yourself a Ignition timing light, you can look at the engine's timing yourself. They aren't all that expensive. You hook the light's red and black wires [which come with alligator clips] to the battery +-ve and --ve posts. That leaves the spring on the end of the spark-type lead from the light, to be connected to number 1 spark-plug. Start car, press light's trigger [its shaped like a gun usually] aim the flashing high-intensity light at the engine's crank-shaft pulley. The notches will appear steady when the engine is idling. If they are moving bacck and forth, you have unstable ignition timing.
This is one thing which most can do to eliminate ign-timing as a cause of the rough running. If it was OK, I'd get the mixture checked by anyone who has an Exhaust gas analyser,..or failing that use a digital volt-meter on the O2 sensors. Idealy tho, If the EGAnalyser indicates the mixture is wrong, and especially its moving around,..but the O2 sensor(s) indicate its steady, it points to the O2 sensor being nutted. This is just an indication on how I'd go about sussing the engine if it was mine. Perhaps you could hire these things?
Because its a turbo, inlet manifold vacuum will be different to a NA donk. Under power, it would go positive [pressure], at idle it'd be negative or vacuum.
JJ
Have you replaced your PCV? Try this start your car and with the plastic cover off pull out the PCV and stick one finger in the hose and the other in the grommet. See how the car engine idles then. A Purolator PV 1047 is what I use. I replace them often since they are less than $3.
I drive mine through hurricanes, tropical storms and the normal Florida toad strangler rains with my Injen CAI. Its not the rain or moisture causing your issue. And do not pay for a timing belt R&R or someone $100 per hour to diagnose.
Make sure that all of your connections are tight....throttle body, intercooler, turbo etc. Check to make sure that your exhaust manifold bolts are tight as well. Check all of your vacuum hoses as well. I suspect its something simple and nothing major.
Unless you have a bad guage your vacuum reading should be higher at idle. -20 to -22 is the norm and what mine has always been here in Florida.
I drive mine through hurricanes, tropical storms and the normal Florida toad strangler rains with my Injen CAI. Its not the rain or moisture causing your issue. And do not pay for a timing belt R&R or someone $100 per hour to diagnose.
Make sure that all of your connections are tight....throttle body, intercooler, turbo etc. Check to make sure that your exhaust manifold bolts are tight as well. Check all of your vacuum hoses as well. I suspect its something simple and nothing major.
Unless you have a bad guage your vacuum reading should be higher at idle. -20 to -22 is the norm and what mine has always been here in Florida.
What part of Florida do you live in? I havent actually replaced the PCV, but have tried pulling it out and plugging both ends a couple of times when I was trying to troubleshoot. It makes no difference at all with the idle when I do. I'll dig into it some more after work. Ill check and re-check the things you listed and see if I can come up with anything. Im definitely not paying them to MIS-diagnose my car. I know how those places work and are only in it for big money. Seen it happen all too often. When they said it was probably the timing belt without even having the car infront of them, I said thanks for your time and walked out. I know its not the timing belt. Once again tonight started the car, it quickly had a rough idle, then it was fine, I drove it and it didnt feel as "peppy" as usual but still ran fine. Shut the car down and immeadiately fired it back up and then the RPMS were jumping around wild and then hovered around 300 or 400 until I shut the car off. My boost gauge is crap. It sticks and catches up sometimes.. if I tap it with my finger lightly it usually jumps to -19 or -20 when idling. Thats what I get for buying Glowshift. but I do believe I have a very slight leak. its never caused a problem before like I said the gauge reads about -19. We have a guy coming next Tuesday to diagnose it. He was referred to us by a family friend and he said hed help us out. He has a scan tool so that may be beneficial. After telling him what its doing and explaining everything Ive already done trying to fix it, he says he believes it could be a sensor acting up. He also thinks the water/moisture was a coincidence, but said he has seen bad connectors malfunction from getting damp. So i'm kind of stuck in limbo until next Tuesday without a car unless I can find what it is before then. Im hoping its something simple as well.
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Right now I am about 50 miles west of you in Sumter Co but I have lived all over this state. I also pressure wash my engine often. So I doubt the moisture is the issue. If you can make it to an AutoZone or Advanced Auto they will scan your car for free.
With the current atmospheric conditions your vac reading should be -22 at idle. When its colder it gets closer to -20.
Something else that I do often is use Seafoam to decarbon or top clean the engine. I use a small funnel stuck in the pcv hose and pour it in slowly. Let it sit for 5minutes, You can keep the rpms low and steady while its taking it in using your right hand to manipulate the throttle. If you have never done it before I recommend doing a second treatment and let it sit over night before restarting. I've done that a few times as well.
You've already replaced your ignition components so we can rule out spark. That leaves air & fuel. Would need to hook up an accurate guage to obtain your vac reading to confirm if you do have a leak. Definitely check those things I mentioned for tightness and feel and look at your vacuum hoses. Could also be a fuel pressure issue(fuel pump, regulator)
Here's a few good tech articles
http://www.import-car.com/issue/article.aspx?contentid=46392
http://www.aa1car.com/library/problem_hesitation.htm
http://www.autotap.com/techlibrary/analyzing_ignition_misfires.asp
With the current atmospheric conditions your vac reading should be -22 at idle. When its colder it gets closer to -20.
Something else that I do often is use Seafoam to decarbon or top clean the engine. I use a small funnel stuck in the pcv hose and pour it in slowly. Let it sit for 5minutes, You can keep the rpms low and steady while its taking it in using your right hand to manipulate the throttle. If you have never done it before I recommend doing a second treatment and let it sit over night before restarting. I've done that a few times as well.
You've already replaced your ignition components so we can rule out spark. That leaves air & fuel. Would need to hook up an accurate guage to obtain your vac reading to confirm if you do have a leak. Definitely check those things I mentioned for tightness and feel and look at your vacuum hoses. Could also be a fuel pressure issue(fuel pump, regulator)
Here's a few good tech articles
http://www.import-car.com/issue/article.aspx?contentid=46392
http://www.aa1car.com/library/problem_hesitation.htm
http://www.autotap.com/techlibrary/analyzing_ignition_misfires.asp
I appreciate your help. Due to the rain again, I have another wasted day. The weather has sucked this week.Wish my garage wasnt so cluttered. I could possibly get it in the garage if I pulled the motorcycles out. My bike and my brothers but I know he doesnt want his outside and neither do I. but I do plan on grabbing a couple cans of seafoam and a PCV. It wouldnt hurt. Ive never actually used Seafoam by pouring it in the PCV spot or brake booster line, ive only dumped it in my gas once months ago. I think ive read that pouring it in your PCV really only helps de-carbon cylinders 2 and 4, while putting it in your brake booster hose, you get an overall better cleanse. any truth to this? and since I dont have a CEL would it really benefit me trying to get it up to autozone? im like 2 miles away from one, but I doubt the workers are going to be eager to help search through the scanner and try to figure out whats going on. Anyway depending on the weather tomorrow afternoon I might try to baby it over there and see what I can find out. Thanks again guys
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To me that brake booster is better is a myth. But do it however you like. You can get 3 treatments out of 1 can. So you will only need two cans if you are planning to put a lot in the tank.
You may have trouble code(s) stored in the pcm, even though you are not currently throwing a CEL. That's why I suggested getting it read. AutoZone will come outside and read the codes. You will need to write them down. They won't clear them. Advanced Auto will do the same and hand you the scanner and let you push the button to clear any codes. At least the one in my town did that after I left the AutoZone and went to Advanced to clear a code on an Honda Pilot that I did a tune up on.
You may have trouble code(s) stored in the pcm, even though you are not currently throwing a CEL. That's why I suggested getting it read. AutoZone will come outside and read the codes. You will need to write them down. They won't clear them. Advanced Auto will do the same and hand you the scanner and let you push the button to clear any codes. At least the one in my town did that after I left the AutoZone and went to Advanced to clear a code on an Honda Pilot that I did a tune up on.
alright so I decided to run to autozone to pick up a PCV valve, and some brake-kleen.. no autozones or discount/advance autos have any PCVs in stock, which was a surprise. I headed home and the weather actually cut me some slack so I got to it. I pulled the EGR, hit it with the parts cleaner, oiled the spring and valve and reinstalled it. I also pulled my MAF and blow off valve as well as most of my intercooler piping and vacuum connections. I made a new shorter intake (my other one was big and was complicating my pipe routing. Made some adjustments to my pipe route as I was re-installing it, checked the connections over, and cranked down on all my t bolt clamps good. Adjusted my blow off valve and finally reset the ECU as the how-to thread suggests.. gave everything a good look over... When i cranked the car up the idle acted up for a split second and then sounded good. holding right were it should. Smoke started pouring (no exaggeration) pouring out of my exhaust. It was gray and odorless. My guess that this is carbon build up that is burning/working its way out of my car? is it normal to smoke like that? my vacuum gauge is still reading -19. so I dont know where its leaking at but apparently its somewhere. I drove it and it felt great. when the car decides to run right, I can notice a huge difference from all of the stuff I've done to it over the past week. Its really smooth. However this is where the good news ends. Later on I fired the car up again to move it out of the road and to pull it into my drive way, and as usual back to a rough idle, nothing compared to the video posted a few posts back, but its still rough and low..... sounding like the engine wants to die. I did not notice a loss of power while driving this time, but then again I wasnt experiencing symptoms at the time. So although it was a much needed DIY project, that I can cross off my list, the EGR did not solve the problem. Tomorrow I guess its time for the seafoam treatment.
At first as I was reading the smoke you described is what Seafoam does, only you have not done that yet. Must have been the brake kleen. FWIW, I have never cleaned my EGR and never will. Another great benefit of frequent decarbon treatments and tank treatments with seafoam over the 94,500 miles that I have rolled. My throttle body plate always looks clean too. I'll be doing another one later on this morning.
That's weird about being out of PV1047s. There aren't that many MSP's or Millenium Supercharged cars. Buy a Fram or other part if you have to just to R&R the one you have in there now. Its spring could be worn out or malfunctioning.
That's weird about being out of PV1047s. There aren't that many MSP's or Millenium Supercharged cars. Buy a Fram or other part if you have to just to R&R the one you have in there now. Its spring could be worn out or malfunctioning.
At first as I was reading the smoke you described is what Seafoam does, only you have not done that yet. Must have been the brake kleen. FWIW, I have never cleaned my EGR and never will. Another great benefit of frequent decarbon treatments and tank treatments with seafoam over the 94,500 miles that I have rolled. My throttle body plate always looks clean too. I'll be doing another one later on this morning.
That's weird about being out of PV1047s. There aren't that many MSP's or Millenium Supercharged cars. Buy a Fram or other part if you have to just to R&R the one you have in there now. Its spring could be worn out or malfunctioning.
What was weird was that the guy at the Autozone telling me that my car did not have a PCV valve. The computer showed they had nothing in inventory compatable with the car. I then took the part number you gave me and looked it up. Advance had it on there website so I took a trip to there store and they didnt have any in stock, he said their computer showed that no stores in my area had any. So if it comes down to it. I'll just order one online. Today I had to redo my intake yet again (it was barely making contact with my fan. Not much room with stock fans and radiator lol) but thats fixed, I also read around on here about seafoam treatments. Decided to just go the funnel route in the PCV. I used a right around 1/3 of the can and followed the procedure as described. To be honest I really didnt get much smoke at all. Not like ive seen on others videos. I got way more out the car last night. I actually filmed the smoke last night that I was talking about. its kind of hard to see with my phone camera and it being late outside so I didnt post it here. The cars issues are kind of isolating to only when its idling now. I havent had any trouble the past few times actually driving it. So Im not sure if progress is being made or it just has a mind of its own. Im noticing problems mostly when I first start it cold (but only for a second or two) then the idle jumps up and holds fine, Im also noticing it after the car has been running and has gotten up to operating temp. If I shut it off then start it up anywhere from like 20 minutes on it really starts idling bad. around 400 or so. Still waiting for tuesday to roll around so that guy can come with the scan tool.
Had a professional mechanic come to look at and diagnose it today. unfortunatley I had work but my father was able to be there while the guy took a look. I gave him a list of everything I had done to it over the past week and a half and he said I was definitely on the right track when it came to troubleshooting, anyways he hooked it up to his scanner. Although the car has a rough unstable idle, there are no present codes, or stored codes for that matter. everything was checking out okay. He double checked everything I had already done to make sure it was correct. He took apart the IAC and checked it. He said he was getting a reading from all the sensors and that everything checked out okay, but yet he doesnt know why the car wont idle right. He said hes 100% sure its not a timing issue. basically he said the same thing discussed in this post about timing. He checked and said timing was fine. He does believe there was a small vacuum leak as well but nothing that would cause the symptoms I'm having. Throttle body is clean as a whistle as well. He did notice the car had two different types of fuel injectors, He said usually when you replace injectors most people do them all. Theyre all working as they should though and he doesnt believe there is a problem there. The car surprisingly is running lean. I wasnt there to get the actual AFR's im trying to get ahold of him and find out. I believe my car has always ran rich, so why would it just all of sudden start running lean? The car is driveable now, and im only noticing idling issues when cold starting the car, and starting it after its been at operating temperature sometime. Driving feels okay, just not as fast as is used to feel. Nothing extreme though. One last thing that I believe people usually blame issues on too often is bad gas. but could it be possible? I was reading that improper octane can cause stumbling, hesitation, misfires and so on. I always put the highest grade gas in my car without a second thought, I even keep the receipts for my records, but is it possible maybe the pump was messed up, or the gas was watered down or something? Would it give me symptoms like what i'm having? Anyways I had half a tank and took it to the gas station and filled it with premium hoping that it would help.
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He must be a pro that has not worked on many or any Mazda FSDE engines. 2 green & 2 purple fuel injectors are normal.
I'll give you my opinion on regular gas and driving without going into boost. I've have done it countless times and it makes no difference in my idle, driveability or fuel mileage. Now contaminated gas would be another issue.
Did he check out the vacuum reading with a calibrated guage? Dirty or clogged fuel injectors / vacuum leak(s) can cause a lean condition. Did you do your "top cleaning" yet with Seafoam?
I'll give you my opinion on regular gas and driving without going into boost. I've have done it countless times and it makes no difference in my idle, driveability or fuel mileage. Now contaminated gas would be another issue.
Did he check out the vacuum reading with a calibrated guage? Dirty or clogged fuel injectors / vacuum leak(s) can cause a lean condition. Did you do your "top cleaning" yet with Seafoam?
He must be a pro that has not worked on many or any Mazda FSDE engines. 2 green & 2 purple fuel injectors are normal.
I'll give you my opinion on regular gas and driving without going into boost. I've have done it countless times and it makes no difference in my idle, driveability or fuel mileage. Now contaminated gas would be another issue.
Did he check out the vacuum reading with a calibrated guage? Dirty or clogged fuel injectors / vacuum leak(s) can cause a lean condition. Did you do your "top cleaning" yet with Seafoam?
Yeah, I highly highly doubt its a gas issue. My father also told me the guy said there wasn't an issue with the fuel pump. Now that you say that I do remember there being two different colors. It didnt strike me when he first said it. Idk about his credibility, he was just recommended to us from a couple family friends and they said he was good and knows what hes doing. I believe he mostly works on german cars though so that might explain why he didnt know that. I drove it to work today and I made the 14 mile hike fine, only problems with the car are when I initially start it. idling at traffic lights and regular driving seem okay. Doesnt matter if the motor is warm or cold when I start it the idle wants to take a dive extremely low and stay there, eventually it kicks in and acts fine. The guy said its lean, but I still every once in awhile get the strong smell of fuel when I have the windows down so idk whats up with it. I have done the seafoam treatment once already and plan on hitting it again. I'm almost positive it has developed a large vacuum leak but I cant seem to find it. I hear a loud whine/whistle while driving and my blow off valve isnt venting while regular driving. Im getting a lot of compressor surge that didnt used to happen in the weeks prior. while in boost, the valve works normal as it should. I have no idea if he used a calibrated gauge or not to test the vacuum, my father who doesnt know cars too well, said the guy had all kinds of tools/equipment hooked up the car trying stuff. so that could be anything. It finally threw a check engine light on my way home today so Im going to run to autozone and get the code(s) pulled. Ill let you all know whats going on from there. Thanks guys
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- 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege
bad wastegate can cause rough idle and stalling have you ever had it replaced?
Yeah the original wastegate and turbo have both been replaced with an oem unit. The guy I bought the car off of gave me the original one that came with the car as a spare. Not too sure whats wrong with the original. Well no real luck with the troubleshooting code. The only code being thrown is P0421 which is warm up catalyst system efficiency below threshold. It says probable cause is an exhaust leak or faulty catalytic converter. My car no longer has the rear cat and has a fairly new straight pipe all the way back. I took off the heat shield and my exhaust manifold bolts are tight, except for one that keeps spinning. it feels pretty snug, it just does not tighten completely.. Guess its stripped. No noticeable cracks or flaws either. I checked for exhausts leaks even though the exhaust is only a couple years old, and I couldnt find anything. Even climbed up under the car while it was running to listen while I had a buddy plug the exhaust. So my question is the code being thrown due to the cat and o2 that used to be downstream, or could it possibly be an existing oxygen sensor, manifold catalytic converter? I keep coming up empty time after time. asked another mechanic that Ive known for years and hes also unsure why the car is running poorly and he really dont have time to tear the car apart to guess due to a new management promotion at his shop. seems like nobody in my area can figure out whats causing the issue. Its just frustrating.
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