Perdition

kent has been a high school teacher all of his life and in his many videos he pretty much shows how science proves creationism and disproves the sonic boom theory.
I think you mean the "big bang" theory. The big bang theory can't be proven, just like the existance of a creator can't be proven. I't all in what you wan't to believe with the evidence that you have within your grasp. Although the big bang theory can't be proven, physicists have proven that the universe is expanding. Which doesn't prove the big bag theory, but gives it hard evidence.

But the big bang theory doesn't disprove that there is a creator. I think that religious people are barking up the wrong tree when saying that the big bang theory is not true. There may be a creator that mand humans, but this creator definetely didn't make the earth. That is one thing that can be proven with hard facts.

I never get all mad about this subject because it can't, and never will be solved until you as an individual die. Until then, it will be a never ending debate.
 
well, he proves the world isnt as old as you were taught in school, proves how it was made and so forth.... anyways, if you want to check one of these videos out let me know.
 
Nah, thanks though. I'd probably end up talking to the TV saying how wrong he is. I just hope he isn't preaching to his highschool students. I don't agree in trying to preach such things to highschool age students because they have not matured enough to make up their own minds. They are very young and impressionable. This is exactly why college professors get in trouble when they try to make up the minds of the young freshmen. I have personally seen two tenured professors get relieved of their position because they were preaching their philosophies to young impressionable freshmen. I just think that is completely immoral and wrong.
 
no he certainly doesnt do that. he holds conferences i guess you could say. many older people attend, 30's 40's. he also has a thing where he will come to any college for free and "debate" with a teacher who is trying to, in your mind, prove something that is wrong. i would guess it would be your choice to attend that one or not.
 
Well, first of all, the big bang can not be proven right or wrong. It is a theory. If he were to prove it wrong, he would be a VERY famous man. If he were to prove that there is a god or a creator, he would probably be the most famous man of all time. But he is not any of the above, so he must be wrong. I'm not arguing againgst him, I'm just pointing out the facts. It has been proven that the milky way(our galaxy) is in fact expanding. It is actually a very simple way they proved it. I'll break it down for everyone.

Have you ever heard a car that is honking coming towards you and then passing you and going away from you? Coming towards you, it makes a higher and higher pitched sound as it gets closer and closer. As it goes away, the pitch gets lower and lower as the distance increases. As we all know for fact, sound travels in waves. As we also know for fact, light also travels in waves. These are measured in wavelengths. All waveforms behave in the same manner. So light also behaves in the same way the sound from the horn does when it's approaching or going away. As light is approaching, it emmits a red wavelength. As light is going away, it gives off a blue wavelength. Physicists have discovered that every distant star in our galaxy, the milky way, is giving off a blue light. They have been taking readings over the past 8 years or so and the light continues to emmit the blue wavelength. This proves without a doubt that the universe is expanding.

This is why I know for a fact he is wrong.
 
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Damn, I really needed Big_Ben in my Philosophy and Logic classes in college... :) I am Christian, as were the majority of my classmates, and when having debates on creationism, we could never get anyone who could state their thoughts as clearly as Ben did... Patrick's (Linuxracer) and No1stunna's posts have been well said here as well..

What bothers me in general about religion, is how touchy people get about it. I think that everyone is this country is entitled to their beliefs, Hell, alot of good people have died giving them that right... I've talked with people from all sorts of ethnic/religious backgrounds, and even though I believe strongly in my religious choices, I don't think I have any right or obligation to try and tell them why my beliefs are right and theirs are wrong...

Anyways, I don't want to jump in and start running my mouth or anything. Oh well, this thread was good reading, and nice to see some conversation without a bunch of bickering on the subject of religion. Thanks guys!

Will
 
Anytime this subject goes into an arguement, I just stop, because there is no reason to bicker about it. It is a debate that has no end. It is fun to debate it, but it isn't fun to fight over it. The biggest thing that is to be learned about a religous debate is not about religion at all. The most important thing you can learn from it is everything about yourself and what you really believe in. Only close-minded people start fighting over it. I remember in my ethics class, I was the only one who would argue against the existance of a creator. There was one girl that told me after class that she didn't believe in god either, but she didn't ever talk about it.
 
big_ben said:
This proves without a doubt that the universe is expanding.

The blue shift you are talking about could take a VERY VERY long time to get from the moving star or galaxy to the telescopes perceiving it... so it may be more corect to say that "it has been expanding"....

hey, we are off topic already anways.
 
True, but the rest can be approximated with math. You can never know how much mass the solar system has, but it is definetely a huge number. It is finite though. The rate of expansion that is being seen now happened like a million years ago. The momentum that it would have with mass of our solar system proves that it still has to be expanding. It will take a long time for it to stop and start coming back inwards. But it can not be proven because you can never know the mass of the solar system. The only fact is that our solar system isn't infinite, the universe on the other hand, no one knows. I believe that the universe is infinite, and for a supreme being to create something that large is irrational. Who knows though, maybe he is just in a "club" of creators and the earth is his science project.:D That reminds me of the episode of the simpsons where a moldy dish in the fridge becomes a whole other world and they think Lisa or Bart is god.(rofl) That one was so funny.

Also, the observation that everything in life has a cycle goes along with the big bang theory. Almost everything known to man has some type of cycle that can be put in mathematical terms. The expansion and and contraction of the universe is also one of those sinesoidal cycles of life.
 
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Hey.....just checking out threads..the gopher has been away for about a month, just piecemeal postings (most, I'm personally sorry to say, in the Hot Girls Thread :)).

I have a B.S. in anthropology. Doesnt mean a thing, but it starts a good story. I would spend a lot of time in the grad anthro lounge at IU. Some dilligent person would put literature, most often pamphlets, in the lounge. The most interesting one, directed right at us anthropologists, was a list of questions that science could not answer, but that religion did have an answer (or at least theory) for. It was truly interesting to read basic questions about life that werent even close to being answered by science. Of course, the creation of the universe has been brought up. But there are tons of other questions that I raise here just for the sake of interesting trivia. The fact that teh questions have not been answered does not mean they cannot be, but it is interesting.

The most interesting question to me is one I brought up with a Polish philosopher long before I had read this pamplet. The question itself is a little hard to understand, and the answer is (currently) totally outside the scope of human knowledge:

What is the drive to reproduce? We know that all living things reproduce. And we study the ways in which they do so, and how various habits improve the chance of survival. We also understand the biological drives behind reproduction (as any man can tell you :D). But what is the drive to reproduce? Why should something "care" to reproduce itself? Why is the coninuation of a species so important?
A directly related question is: Do all organisms have a concept of life and death? And if so, why would life be so precious? It sounds a little backwards, but there is no philosophical reason why life should be continued, or why there is a drive to reproduce. It is as yet unanswered by science.

A lot of questions follow similar veins, that is they are very simple (in wording) "why" questions behind much more complex "why" questions (like why different animals look different, which we are still answering through genetic expression and evolution).


On the flip side, there are lots of things that science would seem to have proven that contradict the Bible (if not the word of God untouched by man). The most obvious one (which was alluded to earlier) involves tracing back through the geneaology of the bible to determine when Adam and Eve were put on the earth. Perhaps the earth is only 2 billion, or even 2 million years old. However upon tracing the bible's geneaology back to adam and eve (going through that long "begat" and "knew" section that no one reads :)) and giving folks a really long average lifespan, we find that Adam and Eve, the first folks, would have lived 4K or so years ago, or about 7K if you give everyone ridiculously long lives, and assume that people a couple of millenia ago lived to be several hundred years old. We have carbon dating, however, that shows human remains a hundred times as old. If one doesnt trust carbon dating, then one can use the soil strata from which the soil was found to know that the remains are old. On a related note (and this one gets folks pretty mad sometimes, unfortunately), there are in fact two creation stories in the bible, people just rarely discuss it. There is the "and on the Seventh day, God rested" story and the story of Adam and Eve, both of which are familiar to most people.
This is actually the basis of the multiple-creation theory as adopted by far-out (in my opinion only) religious/social groups across the world, like the Aryan Nation, Nazis, Nation of Islam, and some more orthodox sects of Rastafarianism. But it suggests that perhaps not all people living are "children of god." The garden of Eden, then, was just one place where people lived, and there were in fact other places where people lived who were not children of God. Again, used by all sorts of wackos. But the passages are correct.

The important thing to realize is that the Bible is not a book, it is a library. It is a "compilation album" (forgive the very bad joke) of religious AND secular texts and stories from the time. The canon of literature as it exists in the Bible knowingly contradicts itself. Despite how it is taken today, the Bible was not originally meant to be read as one book, one story. It was a reference library, a holy set of encyclopedias, if you will, from which to pull information and facts. One of the reasons (the biggest) that there is such a diversity among the Christian faiths is which passages supercede other contradictory ones, and how to interpret more obscure metaphors of morality.

Sorry. I spent most of my life talking about this.

And again, my own beliefs notwithstanding, I have also come to the conclusion that a person's goodness is determined by their actions, and not the ornament on their neck, the covering on their head, or the book that they carry. I would rather be around a hundred athiests who treated each other with love than one person "of faith" who bore ill-will towards others. Of course, by definition, those folks would not be Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc, but by many definitions they are.

Love to all of you, and good life.
 
Okay...great thread...very interesting...wonderful posts...but only one mystery exists that is greater than any other...even greater than the meaning of life...that mystery is:

WOMEN!!!
 
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