Is my 2003 P5 pooched?!

[opieshuffle]

Hey Everyone,
Just got word from the shop that the ball joints / bushings are shot. Mechanic says the joints are welded to the control arms. Very rusty bolts going into a nut welded into the frame/structure of the car. Bolts are spinning meaning the welded nut is loose. No way to remove bolt other than cutting it and then no way to get a new nut in place.

Car is very rusty all around due to Canadian winters and Toronto salt! (and me not being more diligent with undercoating/protection.

So two things:
1. Is his diagnosis on "she's pretty much DONE" correct or can this issue be overcome?
2. If it's pooched, anyone need an engine / tranny / parts car in Toronto Canada with only 140,000km on her?

I hate to walk from such low mileage and don't mind trying to fix it if there's a solution to the problem. But I also don't want to attempt fixing something that can't be fixed.

Chris

 

[Bebotech]

why don't you just buy the control arms. I don't know how much they are for you but, Ebay has the set for like $70 USD.

 

[opieshuffle]

He said when removing the bolts that hold the control arms that on rusted cars they tend to snap and then we're in a heap of trouble trying to drill out an not damage the welded nut inside the frame. When he was loosening mine, he said the weld on the nuts (both sides) broke so the bolt just spins, meaning cutting the bolt. But that leaves no way to a affix a new bolt.

Unless someone's run into this and has a solution?!?!?!?

 

[Bebotech]

Sorry, cant help you with that. If you decide to part out I will be interested on some items do. I would much rather you fix it since I know how hard it is to lose a car.

 

[hotcracker69]

lose a car over some suspension damages? mmmm i say get a second opinion, being canada, you might be able to find more exp mech that deal with stuff like this, am sure there is many other cars with the same issue that were saved one way or another.

post a pic, perhaps other members here can help

 

[Ward83]

Why not run a new longer bolt through the frame, and put a nut on the outside?

 

[kms1990]

Why not run a new longer bolt through the frame, and put a nut on the outside?

good idea, and get all the rust you can and put more protection under er

 

[opieshuffle]

I'm going to bring her home tomorrow and look for myself. Some good info online about cutting an access hole into the subframe for a wrench to hold the nut, remove / refit and then weld it all back together. I have a MIG and welding skills so once I see what I'm dealing with I'll post pics. Wish me luck. Might even look at welding the new control arm to the frame vs using a bolt. Thoughts?

 

[kms1990]

hm depending on how long you wanna keep it i would not weld it on, just in case it ever needs to be replaced again

 

[opieshuffle]

good point on the welding. Although with the state of the body (sis I mention Canadian winters and salt?) I think the rest of the car would be long gone before I'd need new ball joints again.

But it brings up a DUMB question alert: is there a way to replace ball joints without replacing the control arms? My understanding is that the ball joints are welded to the arm. Is that correct or can they be replaced on their own?

BTW...I really appreciate everyone's replies and input.

 

[tweety2300]

With the amount of rust you're talking about I would do a thou rough inspection if the whole car and then decide if you want to keep it. Once it's there, it's there. It won't go away and will get way worse as time goes on

 

[Ward83]

That is correct, the ball joints are welded on instead of pressed in, and cannot be replaced.

 

[CTt3P5]

That is correct, the ball joints are welded on instead of pressed in, and cannot be replaced.

Sorry but this is false. Check out my thread here to find out more and it includes pic from a fellow Canadian who planned on pressing 626 ball joints into LCA's. It can be done but after I called the local Napa in town the savings to have new ball joints and bushings pressed in was minimal. http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123835282-Lower-Control-Arms-Dos-and-Donts&highlight=

To the OP, GL with your fix! I can feel your pain as this happened to me a few years ago but it was a welded nut inside the rear subframe that the rsb bracket mounts to. I've just been running without the rsb. At least mine can be fixed by replacing the subframe. Please keep us updated!

 

[The_big_dill]

That is correct, the ball joints are welded on instead of pressed in, and cannot be replaced.

Majority of service manuals will tell you to replace the lower control arm because the labour price vs parts to press out a ball joint and put it back in is not cost effective. However, it is possible to press them out and replace them, as has been mentioned.

Tweety has an excellent point, check out the rest of the car, if there is a ton of frame rust I would consider parting with the car unless you want to do even more work

Also, Depending on what you mean exactly, but I feel like you would have trouble welding on the lower control arm considering the different steel thicknesses.

 

[opieshuffle]

Hey everyone!
The details on pressing out the joints is fantastic. I'm about to go bring her home to have a look. The mechanic (who I DO trust) said that up on the hoist, the undercarriage was looking rough. Not as bad as tons of frame rust but he did say the rust is getting worse. I guess my position is that if I can get another year out of her it's worth doing the fixes. She's an around town car and I don't feel like buying new just yet. Although off topic, I did drive a 2014 Mazda 3 and she was a SWEET ride!

As to welding different steel thickness. It just takes some prep and adjusting the MIG temp / wire feed speeds accordingly. Not the best situation, but I've done it before on other projects.

 

[opieshuffle]

well...I am officially stumped. My gut feeling is after doing a quick hose replacement and "inspecting" the ball joints, my mechanic forgot to replace / tighten something causing the real loud noises from the front end. Then when he put her back on the hoist, fixed that part of it all. I just drove her home and there is ZERO noise from the car. So I jacked one side up and then the other. There is 9/3 o'clock play (slight) from side to side, and no play 12 / 6 oclock on the drive's side. Passenger side: ZERO movement in any direction. Am I being played? I'm definitely going to look for a reputable Mazda shop and get another opinion.

I'm trying to upload some pics, but the joints don't look in "bad" shape.

C

 

[tweety2300]

Check tie rods

Up and down is ball joint, left to right is tie rod play all around is wheel bearing iirc