Intake Manifold Modifications.....
- Thread starter BlkZoomZoom
- Start date
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
spicymc- I'm not going to be running the MSP anymore. It's beat all my expectations, and I'm pretty sure not many people thought one of these would run 13.40's with so many stock parts and add to that 2.2 60's. I'm seriously thinking about selling the scamp, but until I do I might as well get some use out of it. If I do get rid of the scamp, then a thumper kit would definetly be in the plans, and a reliant k car station wagon...w/super 60.
the mp3 manifold doesn't have the shutter valves, however it doesn't take more than 10mins to remove them....
I wasn't going to do anything else before the intake manifold...I'm hoping I can stop. But the chance to go low 13.'s is so interesting.
the mp3 manifold doesn't have the shutter valves, however it doesn't take more than 10mins to remove them....
I wasn't going to do anything else before the intake manifold...I'm hoping I can stop. But the chance to go low 13.'s is so interesting.
Glowmunkey
Member
Brian, is the MP3 intake manifold the same as the Speed one? Minus the ULEV shutters...?
DSMConvert
AWD...say Bye Bye
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- Titanium MS6
any specific year IM...I have one laying around off a 93 probe 2.0, or do I need to find one from like a 99+ fsde engine?
Puckpimp71
Member
- :
- 1991 Taurus SHO, 2003 Black Mazdaspeed Protege
Would it be easier, or more effective to send out the manifold for extrude honing?
flat_black
Member
Hey, that looks really familiar! Too bad my camera sucks at taking pics in anything other than perfect lighting. =) Ahh well. Enjoy!
Pardon my noobness, I have not had a chance yet to take the manifold off and examine it closely. But when I look in my engine it looks like there are two halves to the intake manifold, the top one you guys are porting and the bottom one that connects to the TB i think.
Are you guys only porting the top piece?
So are there any gains to be made from modifying the bottom part of the intake manifold?
I think i might be able to pick up a spare manifold for $45. I haven't seen a picture yet of the part I'm considering buying, and I just want to know if I can/should get just the top, or go with both.
Are you guys only porting the top piece?
So are there any gains to be made from modifying the bottom part of the intake manifold?
I think i might be able to pick up a spare manifold for $45. I haven't seen a picture yet of the part I'm considering buying, and I just want to know if I can/should get just the top, or go with both.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Excellent work...
As far as the turbo...this is my nerdy hypothesis...although what Dana said is most likely the correct one...
Its been a while since i have seen the stock T-25's compressor graph...but I vaguely remember it being near 275whp or so before it started to take a dump on efficiency...Turbo's push air...not boost...boost is just a vague term explaining the air pressure "increase" over ambient...but any turbo basically has a hp threshold in which it can only push enough air for X hp...this could get way to mathy, so I will save all that...but you need X amount of oxygen mixed with Y amount of gas to make Z hp...Different turbo's push different amounts of air, despite raising the intake trac's pressure the same psi...meaning a t-25 at 10psi is not pushing the same amount of air as a bigger turbo at 10psi...
So thats where this is going...I would be willing to be that you are right on the effiency limit for the stock turbo...which is somewhere between 250 and 300whp I think...with freeing up the head and intake manifold like that, you are allowing more air to enter the engine at a given boost level...but that doesn't matter if the turbo is pushing its maximum amount of air that it possibly can...The engine is ingesting more air faster than it could before...and the turbo is supplying the same amount of whp basically, just at a lower pressure above ambient...the lack of restrictions is allowing it to flow air easier than it did before though...
So it could simply be that the compressor wheel just can't spin faster, because of its limited size and restrictions to the turbo itself, to create more boost...but its flowing probably the same amount of air it did before...just at a lower boost level...Your 1/4 times lilustrate this...you were close to what you were before, albeit with 3-4 or so less lbs of boost...illustrating that you are making about the same whp you did before the intake mods, but at a lower boost level...further illustrating that time is up for the turbo...you have reached the whp limit for that thing...I am such a dork...
As far as the turbo...this is my nerdy hypothesis...although what Dana said is most likely the correct one...
Its been a while since i have seen the stock T-25's compressor graph...but I vaguely remember it being near 275whp or so before it started to take a dump on efficiency...Turbo's push air...not boost...boost is just a vague term explaining the air pressure "increase" over ambient...but any turbo basically has a hp threshold in which it can only push enough air for X hp...this could get way to mathy, so I will save all that...but you need X amount of oxygen mixed with Y amount of gas to make Z hp...Different turbo's push different amounts of air, despite raising the intake trac's pressure the same psi...meaning a t-25 at 10psi is not pushing the same amount of air as a bigger turbo at 10psi...
So thats where this is going...I would be willing to be that you are right on the effiency limit for the stock turbo...which is somewhere between 250 and 300whp I think...with freeing up the head and intake manifold like that, you are allowing more air to enter the engine at a given boost level...but that doesn't matter if the turbo is pushing its maximum amount of air that it possibly can...The engine is ingesting more air faster than it could before...and the turbo is supplying the same amount of whp basically, just at a lower pressure above ambient...the lack of restrictions is allowing it to flow air easier than it did before though...
So it could simply be that the compressor wheel just can't spin faster, because of its limited size and restrictions to the turbo itself, to create more boost...but its flowing probably the same amount of air it did before...just at a lower boost level...Your 1/4 times lilustrate this...you were close to what you were before, albeit with 3-4 or so less lbs of boost...illustrating that you are making about the same whp you did before the intake mods, but at a lower boost level...further illustrating that time is up for the turbo...you have reached the whp limit for that thing...I am such a dork...
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DSMConvert
AWD...say Bye Bye
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- Titanium MS6
IS you're half right....what you said regarding airflow and top hp is basically correct, BUT psi is an important factor in determining eff. ranges...psi is also a function of heat, as we know air expands with heat. The psi is the work output of the turbo, that is the force representative of the energy required to produce a certain pressure. As you increase pressure you will always increase heat(laws of thermodynamics), thus as heat increases, eff decreases(covered in 100% eff combustable engines and such in physics II). SO though yes psi has nothing to do with airflow persay, it does have everything to do with intake temps and eff of the system at hand....the t25 will lose its eff at 18-20psi regardless of the cfm is flows at those pressures...the reason bigger turbos have higher eff boost levels is b/c it takes less energy(heat) to produce a given psi...but back to my question is there a particular year IM we should be looking for or will any fsde work?
bambam-85382
Member
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- 02 Silver Pro5
do you think this mod would benifet a non-boosted engine enough to consider?
DSMConvert
AWD...say Bye Bye
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- Titanium MS6
hehe well after watching turf torchers, discovery special on lawn mower racing, and the fact these guys spend thousands on cams and cranks, I think this would benefit any engine!
