Could someone please explain the effect on lowering if I buy new Tokico struts?

[Matrix]

Hey everyone,

I'm not extremely knowledgeable regarding suspensions, but someone told me that if I plan on installing lowering springs with new Tokico struts, that I should expect the rear to be lowered by an additional 0.25" because the stock rear MSP struts are perched that much higher than the aftermarket Tokico replacements. Is that true?

I was looking at installing H&R springs which are supposed to lower the car 1.3" all around. If I use NEW Tokico Blues, will the car be lowered 1.3" in front and 1.55" in the rear? I don't think I'd dig that...

Thanks in advance for your help...

 

[njaremka]

no. if you replace springs with struts, you will get whatever you get. drop numbers, which are the wrong way to advertise ride height, and usually based on the regular sedan stock ride height or the protege5 stock ride height.

fyi, my car is riding on the tokico hp handling kit. so, if you install that kit, your car will sit similar to mine.

 

[njaremka]

 

[Matrix]

Ohh, I think I understand. The drop numbers provided by the manufacturers are given under the assumption you are lowering a stock sedan, so if you use new shocks on an MSP, that will provide the corresponding drop. So you only need to add 0.25" to the rears on a drop for the MSP if you are re-using the stock rear struts.

Thanks man!

 

[jdwk]

I have the HPK as well. The kit came with lowering springs which I think are just Eibachs with the sticker taken off. I have the measurements I dropped from stock written down at home.

Although it looks great and the handling is maybe marginally improved, I really do regret it because of all the trouble with the end links and sways. The problems are all sorted out now, but it was a lot of frustration.

I never intended to lower the car, but after seeing what new rear OEM struts cost, I went this route.

 

[Matrix]

I have the HPK as well. The kit came with lowering springs which I think are just Eibachs with the sticker taken off. I have the measurements I dropped from stock written down at home.

Although it looks great and the handling is maybe marginally improved, I really do regret it because of all the trouble with the end links and sways. The problems are all sorted out now, but it was a lot of frustration.

I never intended to lower the car, but after seeing what new rear OEM struts cost, I went this route.

Looks sweet! (thumb)
What problems did you experience with the end links and sway bars?
Did ride comfort suffer at all? Do your passengers complain about a harsh ride?

 

[jdwk]

Lowering the car essentially rotates the sway bar upwards so that when you roll to one side instead of the each side of the car working against each other there is a horizontal component as well. This puts extra stress on the bushings and brackets. Within a week of putting on the new suspension, my relatively new sway bar bushings were toast creating a clunk as the sway bar shifted around in the worn bushings.

The only way to properly fix it is to lower the sway bar attachment by the same amount using longer endlinks. I bought the uber expensive AWR links, but they weren't really long enough and I had heard reports about noises from the heim joints so I sold them without ever putting them on the car.

Then I attempted to build by own. The setup from HKPro just didn't look professional enough for me because I am anal like that and I scoured the internet for parts. I made some pretty decent looking adjustable end links but they only lasted a few days before the ball joints began popping in and out under stress which was incredibly obnoxious.

I then scoured the parts catalogs at Autozone and O'Reilly to see if I could find a car that had 1.5" longer end links. It turns out the car that does is the Mazda 3. Go figure. So I bought some Moog Mazda 3 links and they've worked out perfectly.

The only downside is the longer endlinks will hit the control arms when you raise the car. It can make work on the front suspension/steering kind of a pain, but it isn't a real problem unless you are going airborne a lot, in which case, this is the least of your concerns.

For the rears, I put on urethane bushings and other than the constant need for lubrication, they have been fine. No clunk.

Another problem is that my rear driver's side tire hits the gas filler splash shield with people in the back and a large enough bump, and also my front tires will rub the inside of the fender well at full lock. Both front and rear splash shields on the driver's side had holes in them after a few months. I just put on new ones (not cheap) and put on 5mm spacers, so we'll see how that goes.

I would say ride comfort is identical to stock. The shocks are pretty much identical so harshness should be about the same. I don't know the exact spring rates of the stock springs vs the HPK, but they can't be off by much if any.

Since I already discovered the Mazda 3 links, that is 75% of the frustration with the kit. I'd grab some wheels spacers as well although that is not a proven fix yet. You'll want urethane bushings on the rears. I've read someone put teflon tape around the rear sway and that has held up better than grease. I will try that next.

I've also seen a thread where someone modified an Energy Suspension bushing kit to fit our fronts. If my fronts ever out again I will be doing that as well.

I guess it probably is still the best option, unless you pay nearly double for OEM or some budget coilovers. Of course, in what I've spent on endlinks, bushings, spacers, and splash guards, it probably would have covered them. Certainly if you count any amount of money for my time and frustration.