Yet another blown engine!

[BrianV]

Another one bites the dust...

I'm curious if most of the blown engine people encountered the failure (blow) at or around redline or around 4000 RPM or so? Please answer.

Also, I've noticed a growing trend of engines blowing while showing the car off to friends, etc. It makes me wonder if the know is being turned before hand to try and enhance the bragging rights.

I also personally think majority of these blown engines are not being reported with the 'TRUE' story, but more of a story that makes the owner seem a bit more innocent. Maybe they think Mazda will read it, as mentioned by other members.

There's no data to really base a decision about this engine on. Just about every other car has a limit of what it can handle. However, it seems that some people are trying to convince it happened at stock or very low boost increases; I just have a hard time swallowing that.

 

[nictlg7]

I am another one currently going through this. My engine/turbo/etc. is Bone Stock! I had 4100 miles, 3 months old, and my engine blew. However, in my case, I complained of grinding noises and hesitation and coolant leaks from the first week I had my car home. It was only a matter of time before something happened with my car. Also, my flywheel had just been resurfaced, throw out bearing and clutch replaced, coolant hoses and radiator tube replaced, and an oil changed performed. I had it back from that repair for about 24 hours when the engine went. They are guessing there is a hole in a rod, but they haven't even diagnosed it. It died Dec. 19...whats is today? ;(

 

[BlueWolfCry]

bad...any charges? or all warented

 

[kwiktsi]

I understand your point, like if he tried to run 15 psi, then sure your gonna have a problem. But to add a few psi and have the motor go on you thats BS. Look at all the other problems that Mazda has not addressed, how do you know there isnt another gremlin luking in there somewhere? maybe there is a casting problem like Chevy had with the engine in the Trailblazer? Who knows. If it was me, Id pitch a b**** and demand that they fix it
just mu opinion
MEAT

I agree- *if* in fact a couple extra PSI push it over the edge- that means it leaves the factory at it's limit and it "taxed" from the start.. They need to allow enough room for error- boost spikes, bad gas, cheap gas, etc. yeat still perform and be reliable- if the car pops that easily, it is a poor design to begin with. It has nothing to do with probaly 20,000+ turbo Buick and DSM guys being "lucky"- it has to do with inferior build quality *if this is the case*.
Joe

 

[kwiktsi]

"So basically Mazda is saying that there motor cannot handle any addtional HP hmmmm sounds like they made a wonderful engine. What blows my mind is that I had a bone stock 302 rated at 225 hp, popped on a Vortech S trim at 9 lbs and had NO problems for 4 years of real abuse. I guess the Japanese engines really are not that superior.
MEAT"

Maybe if people did modifications correctly and wisely they wouldnt have blown motors and mazda to blame. If you are raiseing boost and dont take some timing out and change the injectors and dyno tune and test the setup . Then you jackasses shouldnt be working on cars. these cars need bigger injectors and tuning to run more boost .Never mind dam kids these days make me laugh.

Arrgh- bigger injectors on a car that spews fuel out the exhasut to the tune of SUB 10:1 AF ratios??? Agree- tuning plays a big part, but a high(er) compression *NA* motor with glass rods doesn't help matters. Injectors have nothing to do with it- unless you are from the school where just dumping fuel to cover poor timing and prevent detonation is the correct way to handle it (you see where that got Mazda)..
Joe

 

[kwiktsi]

This statement is what i cant stand. Im sorry but this is the typical BS i hear day in and day out. Have you ever taken apart a ford 302??
Really im not trying to be a dick but to come to that conclusion is silly.
We are talking about 2 engines that have absolutely no similarities to each other.
I wouldnt even begin to brag about a car that makes 200 WHP and has 2.5 times the displacement value.
I could go on and on about ford and the " big three" mentality about muscle cars.
Also i guess you dont really know why the MSP was brought to the market.
my 2 1/2 cents

Lol- off the subject (kind of) but have you ever seen a 5.0 block split almost completely in half down the main webbings from running 20 psi on a stock car . My friend was running 9.60's on an E303, ported GT 40 heads, GT 40 intake and blower .
Joe

 

[kwiktsi]

what puzzles me is how many vendors on this board have "upgrades" for boosting 12+ psi on stock internals a no fuel management?????

Fuel management is left to the people with teh electronic "know-how" to design- Greddy, HKS, Apexi, etc.. Not the small guy. It is not like it is a simple thing to produce .. Again- a lot of people are missing the point- it is not so much fuel management as it is timing that this car needs to survive. That and a stronger motor if you really want potential .
Joe
PS- I thought Spool and a couple other guys were working on getting the E-Manage to work- what happened with that?

 

[BoostedBlueMSP]

i know im not modding my car until there is a far better aftermarket and more quality parts out there. this car is still farely new and has yet to gain enough aftermarket manufacturers. honda civic didnt have much of an aftermarket when they first came out, but look at them now: huge aftermarket, b/c the car has been around for a long time. this is the first turboed protege, just need time. i just spent $17000 on a car that rides great, i dont plan to blow or fuk^ my car anytime soon with poorly planned modding. i know w/e i plan to do is gonna be done right and w/o nig* rigging

 

[Dr.Sound]

^ umm, NO

this is all the aftermarket support we will get, PERIOD.

maybe 2 or 3 more products, but that will be it.

how can u compare MSP production to Civic production?
MSP is under 5000 worldwide (US), but civic is the largest production car in the world. ofcourse it has unlimited aftermarket support

 

[shaolin]

Joe...
It was turboge that was doing the Emanage setup, and well...the ECU pretty much learned around any settings that were made and negated them. So in other words, get the setting you want, the car runs great. Turn it off, start it again, and wallah...all your setting are gone. Seems that we need a full standalone...a few are on their way, and from what I understand the Haltech works pretty well also.

 

[1sty]

Fuel management is left to the people with teh electronic "know-how" to design- Greddy, HKS, Apexi, etc.. Not the small guy. It is not like it is a simple thing to produce .. Again- a lot of people are missing the point- it is not so much fuel management as it is timing that this car needs to survive. That and a stronger motor if you really want potential .
Joe
PS- I thought Spool and a couple other guys were working on getting the E-Manage to work- what happened with that?

What about Vishnu? Flyin Miata?
They may use a unit from people like Greddy and Apexi but they are the ones tuning it.

 

[kwiktsi]

What about Vishnu? Flyin Miata?
They may use a unit from people like Greddy and Apexi but they are the ones tuning it.

True, I was just saying that it is not something a little guy will make on his own .. A lot of the MSP vendors here are too small to finance a project like that.
Joe

 

[1sty]

True, I was just saying that it is not something a little guy will make on his own .. A lot of the MSP vendors here are too small to finance a project like that.
Joe

I am not sure that they are too small just not seriously commited. You either have to have a large company with tons of resources or a small one with the right people and a not alot of bills to pay or other projects to distract you.

 

[kwiktsi]

I am not sure that they are too small just not seriously commited. You either have to have a large company with tons of resources or a small one with the right people and a not alot of bills to pay or other projects to distract you.

Yeah, but after speaking with other MSP vendors, it is unfortunately just not a market a lot want to deal with. Too much aggrivation for the limited #'s ..


Joe

 

[1sty]

Yeah, but after speaking with other MSP vendors, it is unfortunately just not a market a lot want to deal with. Too much aggrivation for the limited #'s ..


Joe

Thats why a standalone is the only path that makes sense. It has to be usable by all protege. That may not be a simple thing to do but its about the only ay to make money.

 

[kwiktsi]

Thats why a standalone is the only path that makes sense. It has to be usable by all protege. That may not be a simple thing to do but its about the only ay to make money.

A standalone is something that ANY reputible tuner/turbo shop could install and tune though, not a specialized MSP item. It is the add on fuel/timing controllers that work with the factory ECU that allow for fine tuning that would be a big undertaking for someone.

On another note- I have never looked at it, but how is the crank sensor setup on the MSP? Also- does it use a cam and crank sensor or just crank? For the newer Mustang GT's, they make adjustable crank trigger plates and such to add or subtact something like up to 10 degrees of timing without even touching the ECU. Might be an idea- hell, if I had an MSP to look at, it is something I was considering looking into making up...
Joe

 

[enry]

Bah, I'm thinking of putting up a terms of service page forbidding any MNAO employees from using this forum as grounds for disproving someone's warranty, because ultimately anything written here is just bits and bytes and hold no legal ground whatsoever. See my sig? It says Joe P MBC. Sure, I have an MBC. But because it's so cold, I haven't installed it yet. But if tomorrow, my engine blew, people would (provided they know) my sig as reason not to warranty the engine. What confuses me is this--ultimately what is it to the people working for the dealership whether your engine is replaced or not? Why the resistance and the really, really, pathetic tactics (ie "i see on teh intarweb yuo posted on massamp3.com abot yer mawds")... sad.

 

[igdrasil]

On another note- I have never looked at it, but how is the crank sensor setup on the MSP? Also- does it use a cam and crank sensor or just crank? For the newer Mustang GT's, they make adjustable crank trigger plates and such to add or subtact something like up to 10 degrees of timing without even touching the ECU. Might be an idea- hell, if I had an MSP to look at, it is something I was considering looking into making up...
Joe

Sounds like a great idea....nice...

well, somebody has to test it. Remember its used for reference only, not for direct trigger. But...It would be nice to see someone doing it.

or it could be done modifying the magnetic eye, moving it a bit, I dont know, mounting it on an adjustable plate?

 

[kwiktsi]

Sounds like a great idea....nice...

well, somebody has to test it. Remember its used for reference only, not for direct trigger. But...It would be nice to see someone doing it.

or it could be done modifying the magnetic eye, moving it a bit, I dont know, mounting it on an adjustable plate?

You either move the "eye" or a different balancer with an adjustable trigger plate on it. If the ECO *knows* that the timing is locked at xx degrees and it advances or retards from there, then any movement advanced or retarded would be unseen by the ECU .

here is a link to the Stang one- http://www.thunderracing.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=subcategory&subcategoryid=1116

Joe

 

[Thxbrett]

We were considering doing our XEDE piggyback for the Mazdaspeed Protege(http://www.vishnutuning.com/xede_evo.htm) but I am not sure we could sell enough of them to justify the work involved. At $895.00 retail I do not think we would have many takers. Plus this car has only sold in very limited numbers which makes the expense harder to justify.

Brett Payne
Vishnu Performance.