XEDE vs CPE EMS

[Rican219]

Goods? Bads? Ugly?

Not bashing either product but what makes one better then the other and why?

 

[Japan8]

Wait and see.

XEDE seems to be running great for some and not for others who were really early with it.

Supposedly CPE can do more (control more)... *shrug*

See what issues do and don't arise with them over time... when people have got a few thousand miles one them. And HOPEFULLY there'll be COBB before them end of the year...

 

[dadasracecar]

CPE can control everything the XEDE can plus fuel pressure. Also, the PID boost control on the CPE is the most sophisticated boost control method on the market. Finally there are two maps on the CPE which allow for switching for track or daily driving/valet, etc.

 

[RevLimitLaunch]

cpe i believe can also control the throttle position. which is a HUGE deal.

 

[www.cp-e.com]

cpe i believe can also control the throttle position. which is a HUGE deal.

Not yet unfortunately


But we're working on it!


Jordan

 

[palmbeachboost]

Not yet unfortunately


But we're working on it!


Jordan

I just ordered the CPE EMS for my ms6 the other day will there be a updated version for the original when u get a throttle position working.

and can these cars handle 17psi to red line with your unit tuning this car?

 

[jdub260]

I just ordered the CPE EMS for my ms6 the other day will there be a updated version for the original when u get a throttle position working.

and can these cars handle 17psi to red line with your unit tuning this car?

Read this whole thread

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123659002

 

[Koenig]

Finally there are two maps on the CPE which allow for switching for track or daily driving/valet, etc.

I thought I read that the XEDE has a 2 map option as well?

I know XEDE is coming out with a harness....... does CPE have a harness or I have to solder/splice that sucker on?


I'm waiting for a piggyback (2thumbs) don't care if it's CP-E XEDE, or Joe Momma..... just a good piggyback.

 

[Nutari]

I thought I read that the XEDE has a 2 map option as well?

I know XEDE is coming out with a harness....... does CPE have a harness or I have to solder/splice that sucker on?


I'm waiting for a piggyback (2thumbs) don't care if it's CP-E XEDE, or Joe Momma..... just a good piggyback.

XEDE does have a two map bank option as well.

Both so far are wire in.

 

[Koenig]

bleh, I don't really want a wire in........more reason I'm waiting for the COBB.......unless XEDE or CP-E can come up with a way to piggyback the ecu....

 

[Klip]

Not yet unfortunately


But we're working on it!


Jordan

Back to work YOU(smash)

Seriously, thanks CP-E keep it up..........(rockon)

 

[Rican219]

I also don't want a to Hard wire in. I want to be able to unplug it if I have to take into the dealership for something I can't fix.
Now when CPE makes it so I can just unplug it then I'm game.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

CPE can control everything the XEDE can plus fuel pressure.

its more correct to say that CPE manipulates fuel control by changing fuel pressure where XEDE manipulates fuel control via MAF sensor signals, not that one system has that feature over the other.

 

[Koenig]

I think the vital question is.......which one gives more gains?

 

[www.cp-e.com]

its more correct to say that CPE manipulates fuel control by changing fuel pressure where XEDE manipulates fuel control via MAF sensor signals, not that one system has that feature over the other.

Actually, the Standback has the capability to control fuel either by MAF voltage scaling or fuel pressure manipulation. We wanted to include both options in case someone still prefers to tune using the MAF. You could even use both fuel control methods if you're running out of available MAF voltage, or if you want to eek our every last bit of fuel that the high pressure pump will support.

I think the vital question is.......which one gives more gains?

The answer is neither really. The controllers only change engine parameters, so one really can't change parameters better than the other. Although you could argue that one is easier to use the other.

The gains you get will come down to how you choose to tune the car, and has little to do with the controller you used to make the changes, as long as it's doing its job effectively. 16 pounds of boost is 16 pounds of boost, just like a 12:1 air/fuel ratio is a 12:1 air/fuel ratio, no matter which controller you use.

Feel free to correct me if I've misspoken Ken.


Jordan

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Actually, the Standback has the capability to control fuel either by MAF voltage scaling or fuel pressure manipulation. We wanted to include both options in case someone still prefers to tune using the MAF. You could even use both fuel control methods if you're running out of available MAF voltage, or if you want to eek our every last bit of fuel that the high pressure pump will support.

ah good to know. when i last spoke to josh on the phone as well as 4drhtrd, my impressions were that fuel was solely controlled by pump pressure change alone. fuel pressure regulation has been a tried and true method of tuning since the days of carburetion and in many good ways simplifies the process. thank you for clarifying.

The answer is neither really. The controllers only change engine parameters, so one really can't change parameters better than the other. Although you could argue that one is easier to use the other.

The gains you get will come down to how you choose to tune the car, and has little to do with the controller you used to make the changes, as long as it's doing its job effectively. 16 pounds of boost is 16 pounds of boost, just like a 12:1 air/fuel ratio is a 12:1 air/fuel ratio, no matter which controller you use.

Feel free to correct me if I've misspoken Ken.


Jordan

agreed. the individual tuning the car and the conditions it is being tuned in will greatly affect how effective the system performs. you could have the greatest most powerful system in the world, and if someone with no experience tries to make major changes to the mapping without understanding what those changes are doing to the vehicle, you're not going to see great results and may end up causing more harm than good. teams of engineers spend months if not years on a vehicles ECU mapping trying to account for every variable, and even after the release of a car you see reflashes being released. having experience in tuning is important or knowing someone who has experience will not only provide the best results, but safe ones. touching on the subject of air/fuel ratios, having a solid safe one is obviously ideal, but getting the right combination of fuel, air and timing that also provides horsepower can be a trick sometimes. i've found it possible to have a 12:1 ratio that provides little power and a 12:1 ratio that provides unsafe power if that makes any sense.

 

[dadasracecar]

internals

I was at CPE the other night and snapped a couple of pix of the CPE and XEDE internals. Lou bought an XEDE to investigate it. You cansee from the pix the relative complexity of the Standback compared to the XEDE. Lou said he wrote an OS for the XEDE chip in 1991. Anthony said that the one of the chips in the Standback runs at 300 MHz. The XEDE chip runs at 1 MHz.

XEDE

CPE Standback

Flame away...

 

[RevLimitLaunch]

well ill be first to admit i don't know much of what im looking at there. i realize cpe has a heck load more to the board than the xede, but thats as far as it goes with me and electrical items. i'm more of the mechanical design major lol.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

that the one of the chips in the Standback runs at 300 MHz. The XEDE chip runs at 1 MHz.

no offense, this could mean any number of things. thats almost like saying the Atari Jaguar was a superior piece of hardware to something like a PS1 being that it was 64 bit VS 32 bit. its important to know which chip in each system does what and by saying "one of the chips" against "the chip" is a little unfair. i am not comparing the CPE system to an Atari Jaguar by any means, by the way

now, we are one of the few companies with first hand views and experience of both systems in action on this particular vehicle. i'd say we are the only company to have direct experience tuning both of these systems on this particular vehicle honestly. my brother spent some time tuning the CPE system and i'll let him chime in if he wants to. He was impressed with the feature set of the system as it sits right now. Something that bothered him, and I'll admit bothers me, is that the car would throw check engine lights and try to revert/override if trying to tune outside of aggressive acceleration. I do not know if this is typical of the system or perhaps an error made in install. Otherwise, tuning was smooth and easy and changes were noticable on both driving and instrumentation. We've been trying to get more time with the system and I know the owner is itching for dyno time as well.

Now, there are going to be people/fanboys who cry foul or scream bias or accuse me of whatever they like. Go for it if you feel the need. I am not flaming the system in any way. Josh asked me not to slander or flame the system when I told him we would be taking a look at it, and even if I thought it was garbage (I don't, by the way) I would never do anything like that. He asked me to be fair and I feel I am be. I think it is a very good and capable system with potential. I would like to see the CEL issue ironed out if possible.

 

[Koenig]

You know what I want.... KEn....Jordan?


I wanna use my Nintedo DS with an EMS, so I can "draw" my fuel map damn it LOL (headbang)

or at least use the stylus to make easier changes..... any chance on you guys making it happen?

(kinda like that DTEC or whatever with the gamboy advance sp) ????