Why not try this piggyback?

[TurfBurn]

Yeah I understand that methodology. That is pretty standard among most types of units. What I was wondering about is a cool feature of some EMS. They mathematically "fill in the gaps" between boxes. Meaning that instead of having a 16x16 map you really have a "sort of" 256x256 map without having to tune it all the way. So you get VERY smooth transitioning and behavior of your tune without any "stepping" which you'll see on some systems. I don't want to comment on whether or not the MPI does that or if it would be noticeable because I DON'T have any idea really LOL. I also don't know what the AEM does or doesn't do.. but I do know what the Microtech does . LOL.

Tuning is awesome. And when you get it, and understand it, it is a lot of fun I think .

 

[Dexter]

Steve are you going to be offering the LT4 also? to compete with the haltech F10x?

 

[TurfBurn]

Yep. We can get those in and they are a good bit cheaper. Once we get the wiring for the LT8 all the way correct the MT4's are the exact same minus ignition, so we'll be set to go on them. We will also know pricing on those as soon as the LT8S's are done. We also will offer full ignition packages so you can run individual cylinder high potential Bosch coils. So we'll have plenty of options and configurations available. And some packages that will rival the AEM in breadth and depth of power and features. But the LT8S is our starting point as I believe it to be the best option at a great pricepoint. Once that is done everything else is cakewalk. One beauty of Microtech is that everything interchanges with everything on their systems

 

[Dexter]

Yeah, thats cool, i was eventually planning on getting an F10X for my MSP, but the LT4 seems like it will be at the same price point. i dont know if i want to mess with ignition.

 

[TurfBurn]

What do the F10X's run for??

 

[Dexter]

I think around 900 and the E6X is 1500.

 

[TurfBurn]

We'll be decently below the E6X with the LT8S's, and we'll be at, below, or very near the F10X's without any problem.

 

[Dexter]

sweet, i think ill give the microtech a whirl if i have the money.

 

[TurfBurn]

We should be/hope to be good to go about mid february. So that'd be cool! The more the merrier

 

[Dexter]

Plus its new and im a sucker for new.

 

[TurfBurn]

It's good to be new and different and we'll do everything we can to support everyone as much as possible. We'll have less customers than the other guys and are smaller so we can give you more personal attention typically too!

 

[igdrasil]

SMT6 works on the protege

Just to let you guys know....I made an SMT6 (the regular) work on another protege.

Im still fine tunning and doing some troubleshoot on the map sensor input and the orange wire feature.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Saw my name get bandied about here a few times early on and thought I'd clear a few things up. If this a repeat of anything said before in the last kazillion pages I apologize.

I've got no more cold start problems, and when I did have them they were pretty minor. I don't feel its a matter of the Haltech hardware or software being a problem as it is the temperature correction map. It was a little grating to see certain people jump all over "ooooh look at those cold start issues haltechs suck!" but people jump all over the MPI so I suppose thats to expected with anything.

Someone said I used an MPI tuner on my car? Not true, though I did inquire with Micah about doing it before I bought the Haltech. I did send a few emails to Modern Performance I never got answers to but I got the address from thier old website, so in all fairness they may never have gotten those emails.

MPNick made a comment about Haltech cars not running well and that people who have never tuned an EMS could not do it right. I'm decently versed in cars but outside of my rx-7 carburetors, my FM voltage clamp and my RRFPR I hadn't tuned a 'fuel management system'. The car started and ran the first day and we had the map nailed to a T (outside of the temperature correction map) within a few days using nothing more than an open road and a wideband. The few extreme cold temp issues I've had have pissed me off and made me beg for the simplicity of the FPR again but cooler heads prevailed on that one. Moral of that story is, a haltech car can and in my case does run very well and either I and my brother learn the art of EMS tuning rather quickly or its just that easy. Maybe a little of both. The car runs smoother now than it ever has - stock, with the FPR, etc.

I had also made the comment in another thread that I had heard Mental Addicition was going to drop the MPI tuner which I saw was requoted by a few people here. The MPI club was quick to jump all over that and decry it as a falsehood - as well they should have, as that information was not correct. What distresses me about this is that the information was given to me in great detail when Bryan and I were running Protege Garage by someone tied very close to MAM to the point of it being pretty much the horse's mouth. The discussions went so far as to inquire if as a vendor I could possibly help secure a different system. These were pretty serious conversations and what it basically boils down to is that I was misled or given bad info and it made me look like a jerkoff in the end. I'm no longer an AV so my reputation as such doesn't matter but I feel now like a soldier whose good buddy loaded his gun with blanks on purpose. The people involved know who they are and know how angry I am for being made to look like a liar and a fool. I'm not going to throw names around because that would devolve into panty waist name calling again.

Don't get me wrong, I personally am not a fan of the MPI tuner for my own reasons and observations and would not myself use it, and there are things I disagree with the man about, but I do want to apologize to MPNick for looking like a jerk for the above issues.


Sorry for the rant, but I needed to let all that out.

 

[70]

A couple of things I saw that I would like to comment on...

First, I saw the comment of something like, "MPI supporters and everyone else afraid of Nick."

I believe part of that is because a few people who have seen things work on cars, such as larger injectors and the car idling fine, get jumped on and bashed by Nick for saying something that is true for that person. It might not be true for Nick, but he doesn't seem to care.

And the next thing is exaclty the point of larger injectors. They will work fine with enough tuning. That is a true statement because of its general nature. And has been proven before to be true in other threads on this board...

However, when you start adding on other things to narrow the definiton of "running fine", such as how those bigger injectors are run (stand-alone, piggy) and emissions, then you begin to get into issues. And that is one point where people start arguing because they do not clarify their point completely.

And, after reading the past twenty five pages about this, to answer the question in the beginning, I would get the SMT-6 because of the issues mentioned with the SMT-6. However, the MPI seems to work for some people and would be the better choice. Hence why I voted "No" in the poll...

 

[Bigg Tim]

Just to let you guys know....I made an SMT6 (the regular) work on another protege.

Im still fine tunning and doing some troubleshoot on the map sensor input and the orange wire feature.

Cool! No one said it wouldn't work, it just doesn't work as well. When I had it in, it was nothing but problems, but it was the first unit I ever used. From what I remember, the timing was and issue at times and the TPS did something also. Nick would be better to explain the issues. I couldn't advance timing either and the SW didn't work as well. I hope you get the sensor sensor stuff worked out. Once you get it going, compare it's functions to the MPI and give us some detail. Probably after all your work and stuff, plus the HW and SW changes, you will see the cost differences. Keep us posted.

 

[TurfBurn]

There are a lot of things that go into how these systems run. A piggy is nice because it likes to share.. but that can cause it's own problems (like the sensor issues being discussed above... and the need for the turbo module... the work arounds obviously fix it, but it doesn't alter the fact that the issue existed). For that matter an EMS has similar problems. I've gotten so deep into it now that it's sick the stuff I think of when sleeping and how my waking hours are spent. Just ask Dave or Keola how I am on the phone and how my responses have been with the Microtech startup (the car is running... one last major issue to solve and one minor and we are on the road). But it's true, there are a lot of things to watch out for on an EMS and on a piggy.

Examples:
-If the IAC is not disconnected from the stock ECU, it will open on it's own at a given point and will pretty much fubar all hope of you getting the car to idle.

-Alternator: It's a half internal half externally regulated piece of equipment. It relies on feedback from the IAT, ECT, CKP, VSS, TPS, and feedback loops just to FUNCTION.

You have to know/figure out ways aruond those to get things to work... so please keep in mind that any of these systems: AEM, MPI, Haltech, and Microtech have a LOT of work and pride of workmanship in them to get them to work they way they do. And unfortunately it is very easy for a customer who isn't that knowledgable or who is a little over confident to send the system into a tailspin because of a mistake.

But anyway.. the random point in this is that you get anything to work... it just takes work

 

[TurfBurn]

Oh... and Igdrasil... if you need any help or have questions let me know, I may or may not be able to help troubleshoot sensors for you.

Later.

Steve

 

[igdrasil]

Cool! No one said it wouldn't work, it just doesn't work as well. When I had it in, it was nothing but problems, but it was the first unit I ever used. From what I remember, the timing was and issue at times and the TPS did something also. Nick would be better to explain the issues. I couldn't advance timing either and the SW didn't work as well. I hope you get the sensor sensor stuff worked out. Once you get it going, compare it's functions to the MPI and give us some detail. Probably after all your work and stuff, plus the HW and SW changes, you will see the cost differences. Keep us posted.

Well...I noticed that I had to pull too much timing on this car, I mean -17 @ WOT. Im not interested on advancing timing anyway, so next I will be using a digital timing light to see if the timing corrections are being done the same as the MPI.

The TPS, yes, it may need some calibration on that area because it keeps bouncing in the 1st 2 rows. But, its no big deal because im using the analog map for O2 clamp.

 

[igdrasil]

Oh... and Igdrasil... if you need any help or have questions let me know, I may or may not be able to help troubleshoot sensors for you.

Later.

Steve

yeah man very much thanks, you know how this is...

 

[TurfBurn]

Well...I noticed that I had to pull too much timing on this car, I mean -17 @ WOT. Im not interested on advancing timing anyway, so next I will be using a digital timing light to see if the timing corrections are being done the same as the MPI.

The TPS, yes, it may need some calibration on that area because it keeps bouncing in the 1st 2 rows. But, its no big deal because im using the analog map for O2 clamp.

What is the setup? Is this an FI car with a stock P5 ECU or the like? If you are up in the 12+lbs of boost and with a stock ECU -17 isn't unreasonable.