Why not try this piggyback?

[Kooldino]

Fine, give me a number. How much with 93 and how much with C16.

I don't know exactly, but they'd be significant. You're talking somewhere around a 20% boost in octane. That's like the difference between 94 octane and 76 octane, percentage wise. Either way, I'm not going to waste precious dyno time tuning for C16.

 

[MPNick]

cryo treating without heat treating = pointless

http://www.metal-wear.com/Cryogenics_heattreat.htm

this is just one article to back up what I know... all the engineering manuals are at work and I'm not about to go get them.

Not sure how everyone does it. The place I use does cycle the parts. Deep freeze and then heat them. Not sure for how many cycles or how long each cycle is. Again, I do not know if everyone does it like this or not.

 

[RyanJayG]

Not sure how everyone does it. The place I use does cycle the parts. Deep freeze and then heat them. Not sure for how many cycles or how long each cycle is. Again, I do not know if everyone does it like this or not.

yeah... but cry treating doesn't seem to do much for non friction parts... but that makes it good for gears, rotors, etc... something like a rod wouldn't benefit much.

 

[MPNick]

I don't know exactly, but they'd be significant. You're talking somewhere around a 20% boost in octane. That's like the difference between 94 octane and 76 octane, percentage wise. Either way, I'm not going to waste precious dyno time tuning for C16.

If the car is not tuned for it you will not see a gain. You may see less power. My point is Dean did not gain that much with the tune we were running. If you remeber his wategate not holding boost so we never were able to make high boost runs and tune for it.

 

[RyanJayG]

If the car is not tuned for it you will not see a gain. You may see less power. My point is Dean did not gain that much with the tune we were running. If you remeber his wategate not holding boost so we never were able to make high boost runs and tune for it.

quite true... all other things being equal, you'll make more power on less octane, as long as there is no detonation. but if you have to run higher octane to avoid detonation then obviously running the lower octane isn't an option. also, like stated before, higher octane allows for more timing advance, increasing power... the thing is that running anything higher than 93 (94 is some areas) just isn't possible, so why bother, unless your car is 100% race, or you have the time to truely do two tunes.

 

[Kooldino]

recount?

Right away, Mr. Gore.

 

[MPNick]

yeah... but cry treating doesn't seem to do much for non friction parts... but that makes it good for gears, rotors, etc... something like a rod wouldn't benefit much.

If you have stress in a rod and they all do. It will break at the stress point. If you remove or reduce the stress the rod will now be able to withstand more power before it breaks. So you can say it is now stronger.

 

[RyanJayG]

If you have stress in a rod and they all do. It will break at the stress point. If you remove or reduce the stress the rod will now be able to withstand more power before it breaks. So you can say it is now stronger.

meh, thats what heat treating and shot peening is for

 

[MPNick]

quite true... all other things being equal, you'll make more power on less octane, as long as there is no detonation. but if you have to run higher octane to avoid detonation then obviously running the lower octane isn't an option. also, like stated before, higher octane allows for more timing advance, increasing power... the thing is that running anything higher than 93 (94 is some areas) just isn't possible, so why bother, unless your car is 100% race, or you have the time to truely do two tunes.

We were planning on two maps. One for C16 and high boost and one for street gas and lower boost. Because the wategate did not hold we never got the tuning done. So we had alot of timing out of the car and never tuned for the C16 the way we had planned to do. Thats why I say we did not get that much power from it.

 

[Kooldino]

If the car is not tuned for it you will not see a gain.

Of course you wouldn't see a gain. You have to tune to your fuel.

You may see less power.

Seeing less power from a 20% boost in octane without tuning for it is VERY likely. Early this summer, I went to the drag strip. I almost ran out of gas, so I went and got the lowest octane that they had there, which was 100 octane, unleaded, IIRC. I made about 6 runs that day, in 91* weather. The 3 I ran on pump gas were all faster time wise AND trap speed wise than afterward. My 60' times were all about the same. Now there are a lot of variables, but I had the idea that the higher octane gas actually lost me power.

My point is Dean did not gain that much with the tune we were running. If you remeber his wategate not holding boost so we never were able to make high boost runs and tune for it.

But you were tuning constantly and getting more aggressive with timing. Once the C16 went in, you guys WERE tuning for it, and you turned up the boost and change the timing and such accordingly.

Well, you said on pump gas he ran what, 12psi? But didn't he run 15 and it tapered down to 12 or something?

I remember him having that problem with the upper boost levels.

 

[Bigg Tim]

When I was in the car after a few passes, he was hitting 18 for a split second and then settling down to 15psi.

 

[MPNick]

meh, thats what heat treating and shot peening is for

Now you have to look at when to do what. Most heat treating is done before machining. If done after you may have distortion. This is where cryo may work better then heat treating. The same for bored block, crankshafts and turbine shaft in the turbo. Yes they both work good, when they are done right.

 

[MPNick]

But you were tuning constantly and getting more aggressive with timing. Once the C16 went in, you guys WERE tuning for it, and you turned up the boost and change the timing and such accordingly.

Well, you said on pump gas he ran what, 12psi? But didn't he run 15 and it tapered down to 12 or something?

I remember him having that problem with the upper boost levels.

We did a total of 8 runs on the dyno that day. The first three were at low boost. Five were with higher boost. We never tune right for the fuel, I am telling we had tons of timing out. When we go back with Deans car we will only have C16. We will run around 22-24 psi. Then we can see what the gains are.

 

[Focus]

Why not have two motors and swap them back and forth?

Easier to change bearings In-Car then to chAnge a motor.

 

[MPNick]

Easier to change bearings In-Car then to chAnge a motor.

Also the cost of two engines would be very high. I do not mind, I will sell all of the pistons you need.

 

[Kooldino]

Easier to change bearings In-Car then to chAnge a motor.

You gonna leave the head on and just pull the crank out?

 

[Focus]

You gonna leave the head on and just pull the crank out?

My mechanic will do it.

 

[MPNick]

so you think any hiboost car with the premapped haltech is s***? That is what you just said. I just want to make sure we're clear on this. Anything with a pre-mapped ecu is s***? ok, gotcha.

.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92243&goto=newpost


It seems that I was right again after all.

 

[MPNick]

Cold start or better yet no start when cold.

***********************************************************
I know that cold starts with the Hiboost kit were an issue, as evidenced by my car's relutance to idle well when cold, but today was the most bitter cold it's been this year, and she flat out refused to start. Crank-crank-crank-crank-nothing.

Anyone have a tip as to how I can get this thing going? Juan says he has some maps he'd like to try out, but I don't have a laptop. Anyone in the Hudson Valley area want to lend a hand? I pay well in beer

***********************************************************

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92243&page=1&pp=15

 

[Fast lane]

Hey Nick i put the thread up in FI add anything to it i left out..thanks