Wheel hop and smooth shifting

[kep0ne]

here are some links to explain it into more detail
http://www.se-r.net/transaxle_clutch/clutch_not_to.html
http://www.triumphspitfire.com/Healtoe.html

enjoy

 

[initialRES]

Kep0, I don't think what you described was double clutching. I know these things can be called differently but what you were talking about was what I was saying. I call it rev matching. Double clutching is usually when you just put it in neutral then let out the clutch, then put the clutch back in and put it in gear. This allows you to shift easier because it is going from neutral to the gear, not gear to gear.

I do agree with you about the heel toe stuff. That is a bad ass move. It is so cool when you are driving, then wait until the last minute and downshift and hit the brakes. Everyone in the car thinks you are going to hit the car in front of you but the truth is that you have plenty of time to stop. I am so glad I got a stick, it makes driving that much more enjoyable. I am always learning.

 

[kep0ne]

yeah...maybe one of us has the terms wrong...but as long as we have the process right it doesnt matter i guess

 

[kep0ne]

thinking about the terms rev-matching and double-clutching...im pretty sure you're right there...

 

[OceanPark]

I am confused. Which one is better in a long run.
Down shift by going to neutral first(let the clutch go), apply gas, then clutch again, down shift.
Or
Clutch, neutral, apply gas, down shift, and life up the clutch.

And I believe the first one is call Double clutching and the second is rev-matching. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[kep0ne]

actually the second one is double clutching and the first one is rev matching...
rev matching saves your synchros
double clutching is kinda useless

 

[initialRES]

Yeah Kel0 is right. Rev matching is good for your synchros because you are doing the work. Double clutching is pretty useless because with the sychronizers today it isn't really needed. It was really used back in the day so people could get into gears easier, because the sychros weren't as advanced then.

What I do is shift normally when accelerating and rev-match when I downshift.

And yeah Kel0, it's the technique that matters, not what they call it.

 

[initialRES]

s*** I'm sorry Kep0! I kept calling you kel0 in my other post. My bad...

 

[initialRES]

Boy now I feel stupid... I just noticed that when I rev-match and heel toe downshift, I am actually double clutching. Here since no one has really described it step by step I will tell you all what I do when I am slowing down.

Say I am in third gear going 40 MPH (at about 3100 RPMs)
I put in the clutch, and take the car out of gear while lightly braking.

Next, I keep my toe on the brake (so I can brake the entire time) while at the same time, I rev the engine with the heel of my right foot to the point that it will engage at in 2nd gear (about 4500 RPMs).

Then I put in the clutch, shift into second and let out the clutch just like a usual shift. I do this relatively quickly while at the same time braking.

If you get it right, You should get no jolt and the car should just brake hard.


SO... What I just described is actually combining rev-matching, heel-toe, and double cltuching. I wouldn't recommend trying this with lots of cars around if it is your first time. It feels wierd and some people have trouble doing it because of the way you have to turn your foot to heel toe. Be careful when you do try it and have fun.

 

[dustobub]

Getting new pedals really makes heel toeing much much easier. I just bought some really cheap (money wise) pedals from driverfx.com and I love them. They feel great, made out of metal not plastic. For $15 you can't beat the deal. I have a P5 and unlike mp3s we didn't get new pedals so the difference is major. The pedals I got were Pilot pm203. Check them out, I think they go really well with my car( Black p5). As for double clutching, I don't downshift any other way, double clutching is just how I downshift. Heel toeing is a lot of fun and very useful once you master it.

Dustin

 

[OceanPark]

Isn't Double clutching = depress the clutch 2 times?

Now I am very confused.

 

[dustobub]

Yes givin its name,clutch in, neutral, clutch out, rev, clutch in, shift, clutch out. You have to do the end very quickly to get it to work right.

Dustin

 

[OceanPark]

Originally posted by initialRES:
[QB]Double clutching is pretty useless because with the sychronizers today it isn't really needed. QB]

Ok, so you mean double-clutching is very uesless, and next time I only have to keep my left foot on the clutch while down shifting?

 

[initialRES]

I was wrong when I said double clutching was useless. You can depress the clutch pedal all the way when yo downshift and not really damage anything but it isn't good for your transmission.

Think of it this way. When you hold the clutch in, there is no major wear to your clutch but the transmission is spinning and trying to keep up with the engine. It is preparing so that it will be ready when you want to shift. If the clutch pedal is out and you are in neutral, the transmission won't try to keep up with the engine when you rev it up. So actually, double clutching does help a little. It saves the wear that comes with your transmission spinning unnecessarily.

 

[dustobub]

It mostly just saves wear on the synchros. The same goes for rev matching. If you double clutch, you also rev match, however if you just rev match, it doesn't mean you double clutch.

 

[big_ben]

Just drive! Too many details! Too confusing!

 

[initialRES]

Yeah it is alot of work but that is the reason I love driving so much. It is fun. I would much rather be doing all of that than driving a boring automatic that does everything for me.

An automatic is like a bike with training wheels. You don't have to be good at anything because it does everthing for you.

 

[gonzoATX]

so what is it called when you are say in second and your rpmz are like at 4@5 and you step on the clutch giving it some gas at the same time and then staying in second and releasing the clutch then/??? i seem to chirp from 1 to 2 then to 3. 3 in a row is pretty good for the mp3...dont you think???

 

[kep0ne]

i think thats called bad driving. im not too sure what effect it has on the clutch, but i think its similar to burnouts

 

[initialRES]

Wait gonzo, you put the clutch in, rev the engine, and then without shifting, you let off the clutch? When you hold the clutch in and rev the engine, it is not good for your transmission. It isn't that bad but it isn't good. When the clutch is in, the transmission is trying to keep up with the engine, so when you rev it with the clutch in, your tranny is spinning for no reason. That is just more wear on your tranny. You should put it in neutral and let the clutch out then rev it. Also, I don't know why you would want to rev the engine and then put it back in the same gear. That is not doing anything for you.