what's the MOST BALANCED spring/strut setup?

[Magus]

The linear front springs give you the better handling because of the predictable linear response. They of course have a higher spring rate and that gives you the sharper turn-in most by being better able to keep more of the tire in contact. The issue is usually the rear spring set-up for ride quality. Stock springs on the P5 are linear in the front and progressive in the rear.

progressive all around = not as good handling and a bouncy ride

linear all around = awesome predictable handling and a harsh ride

linear front / progressive rear = awesome predictable handling and decent ride

The progressive rear will absorb the impacts better than a linear spring. Just make sure you replace the bump stops with MSP units or cut your stock. If you use anything other than stock springs you will potentially be riding your bump stops when you hit anything!


Tires are important as they are the contact, but without a good suspension you are not making good contact and wasting the potential of the tires.

 

[poison]

Sethro gt, can you check the tabs on the gr2's compared to stock? I'm kind of torn between the gr2 and hp.

I just spoke to tokico. The guy knew ALL about the p5, very cool. He highly recommended against trying to weld the tab back on the strut. I had seen the hp billed as 'oem replacement' in some places, but he said it's not, at all. Stock springs would be highly over-damped on hp's. He says the tokico kit is perfectly damped, and he was knowledgable enough, I believe him.

Gah. I would just do the hp kit, but I'm seriously poor. I actually can't afford any of this at all, but I drive my car for work, 100+ miles a day, and I'm not gonna have that isht flopping around any more. **** that.

 

[Magus]

poison,
I would recommend getting a 93-96 mx-6 rear strut bar. You will have to cut into your plastic trunk panels, but you can safely run with out a rear sway bar with on. I had to do that when my progressive 22mm kept breaking brackets. I finally had someone machine me brackets out of aluminum twice as thick. The strut bar cost less than $50. That should give you time to save up for the strut/spring combo you want.

By the way, I have the progressive 22mm on stock struts with stock endlinks with no problems.


FYI: do not run with the sway bar partially unhooked for long, you will wear two of you tires (diagonal tires) badly.

 

[poison]

Good tip, thanks!

How would running with the rear sway affect anything? It's rotating freely. It needs the resistance of the other side to do anything, no?

 

[sethro_GT]

Tires are important as they are the contact, but without a good suspension you are not making good contact and wasting the potential of the tires.

Excellent info in that post!

But, imo, the P5 has a good suspension oem, meaning tires should be well utilized. It comes down to what your goals are and if this is a daily driver 98% of the time then oem is probably more than adequate. Just my 2c


if one side is connected it can still press against the sway bar brackets? perhaps...

 

[yangsui]

But, imo, the P5 has a good suspension oem, meaning tires should be well utilized. It comes down to what your goals are and if this is a daily driver 98% of the time then oem is probably more than adequate. Just my 2c

Agreed. For daily driving and the occasional canyon blasting, our stock suspension is very competent and fun. For racing though, you'd need more -ve camber else only like 30% of the tire is being used in hard cornering.

 

[sethro_GT]

KYB and OEM struts have about the same thickness steel for the rear strut sway bar link tab, about .17" thick. I have no idea how you would break that, it must be crappy welds. The KYB had a very nice weld and the OEM wasn't very poor either.

 

[poison]

First off, thank you so much for that, sephro! I really appreciate it.

I took my car to some ghetto muffler place today, and had him weld the tab back on there. The tab sheared in the middle, not at all at the weld, which is extremely odd. But the guy had the explanation: when my endlink broke, I bought hkpro's very nice home depot special endlinks (awesome, btw). I had to take my car somewhere to have them remove the endlink bolt from the strut tab, it was on so tight. So I didn't feel like messing with the other unbroken side. So I left one side oem, one side upgraded, which I sized to match the oem endlink. Well, apparently I should've put both new endlinks on, so as not to shear the tab. As hkpro's endlinks come, they are slightly too long, even at the shortest setting. This imbalance between oem and hkpro caused the tab to shear. This guy welded the tab in a slightly different location to accommodate the hkpro endlink on the right side, and I'm still oem on the left.

Ugly ass weld he did, but beefy with some nasty gusseting, looks sturdy. So I bought some time. But thanks to sephro's input, and the knowledge that the tab didn't just randomly fail, I'll probably be buying some gr2's in a few months.

 

[poison]

First off, thank you so much for that, sephro! I really appreciate it.

I took my car to some ghetto muffler place today, and had him weld the tab back on there. The tab sheared in the middle, not at all at the weld, which is extremely odd. But the guy had the explanation: when my endlink broke, I bought hkpro's very nice home depot special endlinks (awesome, btw). I had to take my car somewhere to have them remove the endlink bolt from the strut tab, it was on so tight. So I didn't feel like messing with the other unbroken side. So I left one side oem, one side upgraded, which I sized to match the oem endlink. Well, apparently I should've put both new endlinks on, so as not to shear the tab. As hkpro's endlinks come, they are slightly too long, even at the shortest setting. This imbalance between oem and hkpro caused the tab to shear. This guy welded the tab in a slightly different location to accommodate the hkpro endlink on the right side, and I'm still oem on the left.

Ugly ass weld he did, but beefy with some nasty gusseting, looks sturdy. So I bought some time. But thanks to sephro's input, and the knowledge that the tab didn't just randomly fail, I'll probably be buying some gr2's in a few months.

 

[sethro_GT]

Good to hear it fixed. My KYB's were a little stiff at first, some bounce, but they have broken in nicely.

What I've taken away from this is that if I were to improve the handling of my P5 I would buy wide sticky tires, camber plates and a rear strut tower bar.

 

[Magus]

sethro_GT and poison,
The reason the attach link on one side and disconnect on the other would wear the tires is because the sway bark is still attached with the two chassis brackets and they have a weld metal edge to keep the bar from sliding left and right. This means when you go around a corner one strut can bend out slightly and the other stays still. Thus if broke on the rear driver strut, that wheel plus the diagonally opposite tire will wear badly.


Suggestions for good handling

Wide/sticky tires - stock is 195/45-16 vs mine 205/50-16 (AA traction A temp)

light wheels - stock wheel 16" is 16 lbs (I am going to verify it)

front strut brace - P5 has that stock

rear strut brace - mx-6 is cheap on ebay, strengthens the car

rear sway - stock is 16" vs Progressive 22mm designed for our car. I would not use it without getting thicker brackets made. I broke two sets before I got mine made.

springs/strut - better springs will lower the car and allow it to handle like a go car, but you need struts or they will blow on stock

camber plate - I know it can improve handling, but at what cost? I heard that it would wear the tires quicker.

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

I had the progress 22mm rr sway with oem struts lowered 1.4 and never broke any tabs. Haven't broken any tabs with the Illuminas either.....must not be drivin it hard enough I guess, lol........but it already hits heads on windows and s*** when turning hard so do you have to be on 2 wheels to break tabs? (boom01)

 

[poison]

Mine broke because I was using one oem and one aftermarket endlink.

 

[poison]

So would MSp springs work on the p5 without the saggy butt if I used sedan struts? Or would it be saggy butt regardless?

 

[sethro_GT]

Probably still sag since the struts dont affect the length of the spring. You may be able to put a shim, like a truck lift kit, in it to get rid of the sag.

 

[poison]

Holy crap! Some guy offered me msp struts and springs (oem) with 15k for $200. So I'm doing some research, and I'm losing my mind.

Apparently it'll sit level as long as I use sedan springs on sedan struts on my p5. But I'm not 100% sure. If so, what do I do when those struts die? Do they make aftermarket tokico's or kyb's for the msp? And would I need new endlinks, or will p5 endlinks work?

Searching this isht on my phone is cumbersome.

 

[poison]

Holy crap! Some guy offered me msp struts and springs (oem) with 15k for $200. So I'm doing some research, and I'm losing my mind.

Apparently it'll sit level as long as I use sedan springs on sedan struts on my p5. But I'm not 100% sure. If so, what do I do when those struts die? Do they make aftermarket tokico's or kyb's for the msp? And would I need new endlinks, or will p5 endlinks work?

Searching this isht on my phone is cumbersome.

 

[sethro_GT]

Thats a good price for a full near-new setup. Almost worth the risk of sag eh.

of course they make KYB's for the msp don't fret that and I'd wager money the endlinks will be the same. Rockauto lists the same part number for sedan and p5 struts. I would bet sagging is entirely related to springs, not struts.

 

[poison]

Here's what someone told me elsewhere:

Another option would be to get the MSP springs. The drop isn't as much, so you'd maintain a good amount of suspension travel, while the tokico HP's are really close to what the MSP tokico's were set at. Magazines raved at the handle this gave MSPs. However you have to make sure you get the sedan struts because the rear springs are shorter in the sedan vs the P5, so height of the rear strut lower spring seat is different.

So I could buy HP's later and the fit would be the same as the OEM MSP struts?

 

[njaremka]

looooong thread, but some good stuff in there....

i have the Tokico HP Handling kit, HP Blues with matched Tokico springs. nice confortable set-up, that handles well too. similar to the mazdapseed set-up, but a little stiffer.

tokico HP blue's are NOT the same strut as the mazdaspeed protege struts. they LOOK the same, but they aren't. they are valved differently, and the MSP rears have a different spring perch height.

if the $200 deal is for the MSP struts and springs, get it. as long as you run the matched set, ride height will be just fine. if you try to run MSP springs with regular HP Blues, the rear will be lower than the front.

if i was to do my suspension all over again, i would get illumina's with tein s-techs. but, since that out of your budget, i would grab that MSP setup and run it till they fall apart. my guess is that the struts will outlast the car.