Whats the best shifter

[uclap5]

i dig the kartboy. and with my teamvoodoo knob man, its soo short, i barely need to move my hand, i just use my fingers..

I tried driving a mazdaspeed later, and i couldnt find the shifter when i wanted to shift.

There is plenty of difference.

 

[nemasis]

Tunnel_Rat where did you get your big brake kit from?

 

[Togan]

some ppl say momo is best, isnt it?

 

[Installshield 2]

I can't agree that you have shortened the throw of the shifter by shortening the length above the fulcrum. The throw is strictly determined by the length below the fulcrum. When you shorten the lever above the fulcrum, you are reducing the arc described by your hand when moving the shifter. That is, you are reducing the amount of distance your hand moves-not the throw of the shifter. That is mathematically impossible.

I installed an MP3/MSP shifter in my sedan which is over an inch shorter than stock length ,along with the Kartboy bushings, and it feels much better than stock. My hand moves less but the throw is the same. If the shifting feels quicker, it's only because your hand moves a shorter distance.

You are confused dude...Shift throw by definition is the distance from one gear to the next you have to move the shifter...IF you move your hand and thus the shifter less, the throw is shorter...

Take a 2 foot hollow pipe and place it over your stock shifter (just for arguments sake, don't really do it)...Screw the knob onto the top of it and drive around...The shift throw would be huge...You would have to move that knob a very large amount to select each gear...If your car had a shifter that long stock, and you removed it you would realize that the throw is much shorter...

There are two ways to externally shorten the throw of a gearbox...First is make the shifter length above the fulcrum (that is the ball in the shifter housing, or the pivot point) shorter...Second is to make the shifter arm longer beneath the fulcrum...The second makes the bigger difference on a biased shifter like ours...But it is ignorant to not realize that lowering the shifter above the fulcrum does decrease throw...just not as much...

 

[Installshield 2]

some ppl say momo is best, isnt it?

Best what? Shift knob?...They don't make ss shifters...They make knobs and other accessories...Are they expensive?...yes...Are they the best?...depends on your opinion...They are great quality usually, but you pay for it...

 

[Critter]

Well I have the TWM short shifter with Kartboy bushings, and couldn't be happier with it.

Everyone that tries it says "I gotta get me one of these" .

'Nuff said really

 

[zmepro]

Kartboy is the way to go

I've installed mine and my friends subaru one, and the bushings, i must say, very high quality, good service, quick shipping, good candy lol

its also the best deal out there, and if you do decide to go with a different level, you must get the bushings, those make a world of difference

 

[goldstar]

Installshield 2,

I believe you are the one who is confused. The throw of a shift lever is completely determined by the length of the shifter below the fulcrum point. This is a fixed mathematical relationship that can't change unless this length is changed. You are confusing hand movement with shift throw. You can reduce the length of the shift lever above the fulcrum, and consequently hand movement, as much as you want (within reason) but the actual shift throw must remain the same as it is mechanically fixed. The lever below the fulcrum still must move the same amount for the gear change to occur regardless of what your hand is doing.

I'd hardly call my viewpoint ignorant when it is clearly you who do not understand the mechanics involved.

02 DX Millenium Red

 

[SpicyMchaggis]

hey I didn't get a free shirt!..damn..but i did get a twizzler

 

[brucelee]

i think we're spending too much time on whether or not only cutting the shifter will shorten the throw...it's a matter of vocab really, from what i see at this point. why dont we just say cutting the shifter will indeed make a difference in the amount of movement for your arm. however not as much as an aftermarket short shifter. but of course, no one will listen to me so let's keep the battles coming.
round 2, fight!

 

[twilightprotege]

i agree with bruce. it will reduce the throw of the shifter, the distance you have to "throw" the shifter...but not as much as an aftermarket shifter

 

[Kooldino]

My TWM is nice, but the install manual fails to mention a few details which pissed me off.

 

[Installshield 2]

Installshield 2,

I believe you are the one who is confused. The throw of a shift lever is completely determined by the length of the shifter below the fulcrum point. This is a fixed mathematical relationship that can't change unless this length is changed. You are confusing hand movement with shift throw. You can reduce the length of the shift lever above the fulcrum, and consequently hand movement, as much as you want (within reason) but the actual shift throw must remain the same as it is mechanically fixed. The lever below the fulcrum still must move the same amount for the gear change to occur regardless of what your hand is doing.

I'd hardly call my viewpoint ignorant when it is clearly you who do not understand the mechanics involved.

02 DX Millenium Red

hey dude relax...I wasn't insulting you...I very well do understand the mathematics aspect of this...We simply have different definitions of what shift throw is...I refer to throw as the distance you move the shift lever...You refer to shift throw and distance you move the shifter as seperate entities...You realize that aftermarket ss shifter's reduce "throw" by lowering the length above the fulcrum and increasing length below the fulcrum?

The distance the shift arm ( the arm underneath the car, not the shift lever) moves is what is fixed...The internal gating of the gearbox requires that thing to move X amount of distance in order to select a gear...Being that this arm is connected to the lever below the fulcrum, this is why increases in length below the fulcrum have a bigger effect on shift throw (the shift lever is biased already towards the lower portion)...But decreases in length above the fulcrum will still have a small effect on the distance the shifter has to move to make the lower arm move the same distance...

Let me get this straight...By your logic mentioned in the latter post, you are saying that if you increase the length of the lever above the fulcrum by 20inches that will have no effect on shift throw?...You will just have to move the lever "more", but the "throw" won't be any different?...the ignorance I was referring to was simply applying to that of the relationships of both ends of a lever...You are saying that only the portion below the lever's fulcrum effects the overall distance the top portion has to move to select a gear...I am saying that is incorrect...

 

[uclap5]

you guys just differ on one thinks throw is the distance moved, and the other thinks it is the degrees/ radians of movement. In that way you are both right.

i think you two have to agree to disagree since you just have different definitions of throw.

 

[Installshield 2]

you guys just differ on one thinks throw is the distance moved, and the other thinks it is the degrees/ radians of movement. In that way you are both right.

i think you two have to agree to disagree since you just have different definitions of throw.

I think I agree...I was just looking for a little clarification of what he meant...

 

[tom@kartboy.com]

i got a simple answer buy my Shifter combo and be done with it :lol:

Tom

 

[luwe]

i guess the other guy calls throw as the amount of movement it takes the bottom of the shifter to shift the gear and the other guy was talking about the amount of hand movement to move the shiftknob

same difference ;-)

question: shortening above the fulcrum makes shifting harder, right? or is that where the bushings come into play?

 

[crayz_d]

I like my kartboy shifter, knob and bushings. It is sweet. Haven't driven any with the others so I am biased to Kartboy.

 

[goldstar]

hey dude relax...I wasn't insulting you...I very well do understand the mathematics aspect of this...We simply have different definitions of what shift throw is...I refer to throw as the distance you move the shift lever...You refer to shift throw and distance you move the shifter as seperate entities...You realize that aftermarket ss shifter's reduce "throw" by lowering the length above the fulcrum and increasing length below the fulcrum?

The distance the shift arm ( the arm underneath the car, not the shift lever) moves is what is fixed...The internal gating of the gearbox requires that thing to move X amount of distance in order to select a gear...Being that this arm is connected to the lever below the fulcrum, this is why increases in length below the fulcrum have a bigger effect on shift throw (the shift lever is biased already towards the lower portion)...But decreases in length above the fulcrum will still have a small effect on the distance the shifter has to move to make the lower arm move the same distance...

Let me get this straight...By your logic mentioned in the latter post, you are saying that if you increase the length of the lever above the fulcrum by 20inches that will have no effect on shift throw?...You will just have to move the lever "more", but the "throw" won't be any different?...the ignorance I was referring to was simply applying to that of the relationships of both ends of a lever...You are saying that only the portion below the lever's fulcrum effects the overall distance the top portion has to move to select a gear...I am saying that is incorrect...

I see we are talking about different things. I'll try to explain my thoughts more clearly. First, I realize that short shifters lengthen the lever below the fulcrum and this is what makes it a "short shifter". However, regardless of the length above the fulcrum (and the different SS vary here), I am saying that the distance below the fulcrum is still the only determining factor in shift throw.

Second, yes I am saying that increasing the length of the lever above the fulcrum by 20 inches (without changing length below the fulcrum) will have no effect on shift throw according to my definition because I do not equate shift throw with hand movement.

Third, I never said that only the portion below the lever's fulcrum affects the overall distance the top portion has to move to select a gear. I have repeatedly said that only the the portion below the lever's fulcrum affects the mechanical throw of the mechanism. Obviously, the shorter the top portion above the fulcrum, the shorter the hand movement will be when changing gears-but not the throw, again by my definition.

Finally, I believe I mentioned that I replaced my sedan shifter with an MP3/MSP one, a little more than one inch shorter than stock above the fulcrum, precisely because I wanted to reduce hand movement and along with the Kartboy bushings take out the play and tighten up the whole shifting mechanism. So I'm certainly aware that shorter above reduces hand movement.

I don't feel insulted, everything is cool. Obviously we're using different definitions here and that's okay. I enjoyed our exchange of views and look forward to future debates.

02 DX Millenium Red

 

[Installshield 2]

Sounds great dude...I didn't mean to make the "ignorant" term sound so evil, I just at first thought we were referring to the same thing...I apologize about that, and I understand what you mean now...the gearbox end of the linkage needs to move a certain amount to select a gear, and being that the portion below the fulcrum is what is attatched to that linkage...that is what is directly related to "throw"...So theoretically you could weld on a longer piece below the stock shifter's ball joint, and reduce throw with no change in height difference of the top portion end of the lever...That makes sense...

Again sorry man, I wasn't attempting to turn this decent thread into a s*** throwing contest