What to look for in a used MSP?

[Charlie Moua]

This is my first post on this form. I'm typically on honda-tech.com & much more comfortable working with hondas. But I've always loved the 99+ Protege. Recently my accord just got into an accident & so I might have to pick out a new car.

This purely will be a daily driven car for family & business. I typically drive roughly 1500 to 1800 miles per month. I don't beat on my car (reason my I have my gsr ef). I have read the threads about common MSP issues like radio, coolant lines, LSD, ect...

I fould a local Orange 2003 Mazdaspeed. It has 43,000 miles & 2nd owner. The car is clean in & out & car, no dings, curbage or anything. The owner is 19 & had his dad buy it for him about 10months ago. Now is going to school & unlabel to pay for it, so he has to get rid of it. The only mod on the car is a cheap CAI. They bought the car from the Mazda dealership used lot with a 100k warrantee for $2,500 more. At this point I'm not sure if it's "bumper to bumper or only power & drivetrain"

They want 15k for it.
Personally I love the idea that it has an extened warrantee until 100k & it's not modded......but. Not sure if this is the right car for me & also if it's a good deal cause i have seen others with less miles & cheaper.


My Q:
1) what would you look for in a used MSP?
2) what should I expect to pay?
3) is a MSP good to have for 4-6+ years? (long term cost of fix/replace parts)
4) why is that MSP have lower resale value?
5) is there a way to find out if a MSP had it's LSD fail & replaced already?
6) how is your insurance on the MSP? compareable to Civic Si & Integra GSR? or not that bad?


TIA for all the help fellas.
Please steer me in the right direction, even though I'm not a Mazda owner yet...

 

[smo0f]

Insurance for an MSP is the same you'd pay for a regular 4 door sedan. To find out if the LSD has been replaced, it would be in the dealership records. 15k is an okay price. Reason that its resale isn't high is because people don't know what the MSP is (look, there goes an evo or a wrx), and also because the MSP and proteges in general are no longer in production, and it isn't a classic car. The car is rated 3rd overall in handling among cars under $30k, something like that. The known problems that the MSP has, besides that of the LSD which doesn't happen to everyone, aren't major problems. Nothing that the warranty wouldn't cover. For $15k, and 43k miles, the MSP is probably your best choice. Its looks, and speed, make it considerable to be a sports car, but not too much that it wouldn't be a family car. ~24-30MPG highway definitely doesn't hurt either.

 

[Charlie Moua]

Insurance for an MSP is the same you'd pay for a regular 4 door sedan. To find out if the LSD has been replaced, it would be in the dealership records. 15k is an okay price. Reason that its resale isn't high is because people don't know what the MSP is (look, there goes an evo or a wrx), and also because the MSP and proteges in general are no longer in production, and it isn't a classic car. The car is rated 3rd overall in handling among cars under $30k, something like that. The known problems that the MSP has, besides that of the LSD which doesn't happen to everyone, aren't major problems. Nothing that the warranty wouldn't cover. For $15k, and 43k miles, the MSP is probably your best choice. Its looks, and speed, make it considerable to be a sports car, but not too much that it wouldn't be a family car. ~24-30MPG highway definitely doesn't hurt either.

Well, I also wanted to add about the car.
It currently is on NEW winter blizzac(sp) and have 4 new 17'' tires that are unmounted. I'm looking for a sporty feel & sporty handling.... my ef is where i get all of my fun thrills.

..... What type of OEM clutch does the MSP use? dis, kevlar, sprung or unsprun hub? what is the wtq rating for the OEM clutch?

 

[smo0f]

No idea

 

[TampaSport20]

main thing to look for....NO MODS

I would NOT buy a modded MSP...too likely to be modded poorly and have something break

 

[daedalus]

buy my car...

 

[icespeed]

My Q:
1) what would you look for in a used MSP?
2) what should I expect to pay?
3) is a MSP good to have for 4-6+ years? (long term cost of fix/replace parts)
4) why is that MSP have lower resale value?
5) is there a way to find out if a MSP had it's LSD fail & replaced already?
6) how is your insurance on the MSP? compareable to Civic Si & Integra GSR? or not that bad?

I can't answer all of them, but...

1) That it has not been modded, or reciepts to prove professional services.

3) no one has owned one that long, but, I did own a 99lx protege put 112k on it in less than four years. I tried to drive it into the ground but it kept up.

4) one of the main reasons why it has a low resale value (and most mazdas for that matter) is because of all the incentives that mazda throws out there to sell cars at the end of the year. In Dec. 03, when I bought mine (brand new), Mazda was giving 2500 cash back. When we bought my girls Mazda6 in Nov 04, they offered 1000 cash back + 0% for five years. When you get a msrp 21k car for 16k, or a msrp 28k for 23k, you can't expect the car to not depreciate so little (if that makes sense, basically, if you buy the car for less, people are going to want to give you less when you sell/trade).

6) I used to have a 2001 GSR on my insurance. It was about $12.00 more/month. But, depending on your insurance co, they may not consider the speed different from the es/lx/dx class. If that happens, your golden. It just so happens that Progressive considers the msp different from the others, basically costing me more money.

Hope those help!!!!

 

[Charlie Moua]

buy my car...

woah nice car & well put together i'm sure but not what i'm looking for. I need a stock MSP. hehe

BTW are the MSP electronic controlled throttle bodies or cable?

thanks for all the help.

 

[Perro del Sol]

This is my first post on this form. I'm typically on honda-tech.com & much more comfortable working with hondas. But I've always loved the 99+ Protege. Recently my accord just got into an accident & so I might have to pick out a new car.

This purely will be a daily driven car for family & business. I typically drive roughly 1500 to 1800 miles per month. I don't beat on my car (reason my I have my gsr ef). I have read the threads about common MSP issues like radio, coolant lines, LSD, ect...

I fould a local Orange 2003 Mazdaspeed. It has 43,000 miles & 2nd owner. The car is clean in & out & car, no dings, curbage or anything. The owner is 19 & had his dad buy it for him about 10months ago. Now is going to school & unlabel to pay for it, so he has to get rid of it. The only mod on the car is a cheap CAI. They bought the car from the Mazda dealership used lot with a 100k warrantee for $2,500 more. At this point I'm not sure if it's "bumper to bumper or only power & drivetrain"

They want 15k for it.
Personally I love the idea that it has an extened warrantee until 100k & it's not modded......but. Not sure if this is the right car for me & also if it's a good deal cause i have seen others with less miles & cheaper.


My Q:
1) what would you look for in a used MSP?
2) what should I expect to pay?
3) is a MSP good to have for 4-6+ years? (long term cost of fix/replace parts)
4) why is that MSP have lower resale value?
5) is there a way to find out if a MSP had it's LSD fail & replaced already?
6) how is your insurance on the MSP? compareable to Civic Si & Integra GSR? or not that bad?


TIA for all the help fellas.
Please steer me in the right direction, even though I'm not a Mazda owner yet...

I just got mine a week ago, the dealership had it for $15,195 on their lot, but I paid less, this was my 3rd purchase from them in the past two years ( I have 2 Mazda 6's). It is a fair price, I have all of the maintenance records and all of the original paperwork, etc.

If the vehicle was ever serviced by a Mazda dealership, they will have records of any service performed by the dealer. If you have the VIN number, you can have the Service Manager @ a dealership check it out for you.

 

[BradC]

BTW are the MSP electronic controlled throttle bodies or cable?

thanks for all the help.

Good ole cable! None of that drive-by-wire poop here!

 

[BOOSTR]

I've heard that the OEM clutch was made by exedy. You'll see many threads that bash it. I have over 52,000 on mine. It has no problem holding the increased boost that I throw at it.

Make sure it idles smoothly around 700 RPMs after the engine has reached operating temperature. Check the tires for wear. Look under hood for signs of oil and antifreeze leaks. Pay special attention to the turbo, cylinder head, and water outlet. Go throw all of the gears and make sure it engages smoothly. There is no synchro for reverse, so that may have to be engaged after pressing and releasing the clutch initally.

The bushings don't like cold weather, listen for noise when going on uneven surfaces over bumps. There are updated bushings available. The stock head unit will not last forever. Mine went out after 2.7 years at 51K.

Reliability all depends how it was taken care of. I have another turbo car made by Mazda that is still going strong after 15 years. Some parts for it have been discontinued. I suspect the long term MSP owner will have the same problem getting some parts, but the car should hold up well if you maitain it and don't abuse it.

 

[Charlie Moua]

Good ole cable! None of that drive-by-wire poop here!

Sweet!.... I perfer the cable feel to any car.
Thanks for all the help. I'm 90% sure that I'm getting this one.

As for how long the car will last... I'd say it should last me 3-4yrs at least, without giving me any issues. I take care of my cars very well, the only car that I beat on is my ef gsr.... hehe.

BTW I just had a few more MSP questions :
1) when you do a compression test on the motor (warm) what kind of psi should you get?
2) what type of oil do you reccomend, reg or syn?
... i've always used syn on my honda... but each motor & car is different
3) what RPM are you at in 5th gear when going 70mph?
4) does the car come with factory installed Alarm? is that part of the warentee?
5) how much more would a FMIC help in terms of NOT performance BUT added reliablity?
6) would you reccomend to get the ECU re-flashed by dealership? would it help out with getting better MPG?
7) how long do owners usally let their car cool off for after reg driving?

 

[icespeed]

1) i believe 200psi

2) synthetic

3) 4th gear is the mi/rpm gear, meaning 70mph at 4000. 5th is between 3300 and 3600

4) yes

6) reflash only advances timing.

7) this is hotly debated here, most just install turbo timers to not have to worry about it. Others say that it takes 30seconds to run the oil cycle through the turbo. Me, personally, I keep the car running whilst I dine on a cancer stick (usually 4-7 minutes).

 

[Charlie Moua]

3) 4th gear is the mi/rpm gear, meaning 70mph at 4000. 5th is between 3300 and 3600

what do you mean by "mi/rpm"
and why is the 5th gear speed of 70mph between 3300 and 3600?

that's a big difference

 

[MSPRO]

I havent had the car 4-6 years but I have 7.5 years worth of miles on my car if you go by 12k a year. I bought it brand new in Oct 03 and I rolled over 90k this past weekend and its still running strong. I have only had 2 problems really, the LSD broke at 46k and a wheel bearing went out at 84k. Sure I have the bushing squeeks and swaybar clunk but I dont consider those major problems. My car hasn't been stock since 6k miles and has run between 10-12psi daily for 3/4 of its life, except those cold times of the year. It even ran 15psi for a couple runs at the track- without my knowledge, I wasnt driving it, BUT it was ok. I know a lot of people have had problems with their cars but I'm thankful mine has been as good to me as it has. I have been rear ended 3 times and it has had cosmetic repairs but no real mechanical problems...

 

[icespeed]

what do you mean by "mi/rpm"
and why is the 5th gear speed of 70mph between 3300 and 3600?

that's a big difference

while driving the car, the tach and speedo are consistent in fourth. Meaning, 4000rpm is at 90degrees on the tach, and 70mph is at 90 degrees on the speedo. At 40mph, the angle is around 150degrees. The tach is also around 150degrees (2500rpm???). If you drop to third gear, there is a higher ratio, causing the rpm's to jump up. So, at 70mph and 4k in fourth, it would be 70mph and 5500rpm (around/guessing) in third. Going the other way, shifting to fifth, with a lower gear ratio, the rpm's will drop. I'm uncertain of the actual rpm's, which is why I put that range. I have based all my driving habits with this car around the "mi/rpm" of fourth gear. I remember my bro (mechanic) saying that fourth was the "Drive Gear", but I may be mis-quoting him. But, WHEN (not if ) you get the car, you will have a better "feel" for the car by adjusting your shift habits based on this fourth gear's correlations of the tach and speedo.

 

[icespeed]

update: Doing 70mph in fifth is approx 3100rpm... I was way off!

 

[Charlie Moua]

update: Doing 70mph in fifth is approx 3100rpm... I was way off!

woah.. that was a very well thought out mechinical concept of how gearing works... I completely understand that.

The reason why i ask is that I do a lot of hwy driving and I just hate driving at high rpms..
My 93 accord is about the same 3100rpms at 70mph so i guess thats not bad.


... I have a rental 2005 camery and it 2100 @ 70mph and 3100rpm @ 100mph cruising.... haha hella cool.
hehe

 

[mazdaowner123]

Price seems high.

 

[D-rock240]

update: Doing 70mph in fifth is approx 3100rpm... I was way off!

Does the Mazdaspeed run lower rpm's than N/A's? At 70mph I'm at 3450 or so (72 is 3500.)