Vibration revisited

[steve757]

Well the arbitraition with Mazda was held yesterday I should know tomorrow the result. Fingers crossed.

 

[Trdkamuri51o]

good luck steve.. i just picked up an 09 last week (well 8 days now) and ive noticed a minute vibration at somewhere near your stated speeds guys, 54mph... its sooo subtle that my girlfriend said it must be nothing major.. well now you guys proved its something more.. ill ride it a bit longer and see if i notice any difference

i have a 09GT with 189 total miles on the vehicle.. and notice a very very very minute vibration that has never been present on any of my other vehicles fresh off the lot..

 

[AIMWO4]

I read through all posts... I think Steve has a unique situation. I had what amounted to No.4 Motor Mount break on a car which caused a vibration, which I thought might be it.

Have they done anything to test your engine? If a balance shaft (in the engine) is out of sync, or defective, it could be one of them. Without actually seeing your car, it's tough to tell.

Do you have video? Maybe you could post a video of what you are experiencing.

 

[morethan5]

Steve's situation is not unique. I have the same issue. The vibration has nothing to do with the engine or transmission. The vibration occurs at the same road speed, regardless of engine RPM, transmission gear, whether accelerating or decelerating, being in neutral, or any combination of the above. The problem is definitely a natural frequency of the vehicle.

 

[AIMWO4]

That doesn't explain why we all don't have the problem. I can't even tell my engine is running when it's idling. I have to look at the tach to ensure I actually started the thing sometimes.

What year is your 5? Auto or Manual tranny?

Steve's situation is not unique. I have the same issue. The vibration has nothing to do with the engine or transmission. The vibration occurs at the same road speed, regardless of engine RPM, transmission gear, whether accelerating or decelerating, being in neutral, or any combination of the above. The problem is definitely a natural frequency of the vehicle.

 

[morethan5]

That doesn't explain why we all don't have the problem. I can't even tell my engine is running when it's idling. I have to look at the tach to ensure I actually started the thing sometimes.

What year is your 5? Auto or Manual tranny?

My engine is equally smooth at idle, all they way up to ~45 mph, and past ~55 mph. At ~50mph the body of the car exhibits a vibration that can be felt through the seats, and sometimes seen in the headrests and visors.

I have the 5AT.

While the tires are the most likely excitation source, the source could be anything from the output shaft of the transmission through to the tires, the vibration is in the body itself -- it's ringing like a tuning fork at a low frequency. Just like a tuning fork, if nothing of the same frequency is coupled to it, nothing happens. What makes the 5 different from other cars is the sensitivity (read as low damping, or low stiffness) to such a low frequency.

Changing the load distribution (moving people around) does change the vibration a bit.

 

[Nova2009Mazda5]

My almost-new '09 GT5 (auto tranny) is a bit rough at idle (vibration causes sun visor to shake, plus you can feel it and hear the engine doing a slight chugga-chugga noise). It is very smooth accelerating (so much so that I sometimes marvel that I am driving a 4-cyl car). From 45-55 mph there is a vibration, but not a horrible one. I only notice it if I am focused on trying to detect it. At highway cruising speeds (60-70 mph), there is some wind noise, but the ride is smooth if the roads are smooth. The car does seem to "feel" every slight bump and crack in the pavement, more so than other cars I have driven.

I am ordering a ground wire kit. Once it's installed, I'll let everyone know if it solves the rough idle. I doubt it will do anything about the 50 mph vibration, but on my 5, at least, that vibration is not so severe that I feel compelled to go to extraordinary lengths to eliminate it.

 

[Trdkamuri51o]

My engine is equally smooth at idle, all they way up to ~45 mph, and past ~55 mph. At ~50mph the body of the car exhibits a vibration that can be felt through the seats, and sometimes seen in the headrests and visors.

I have the 5AT.

While the tires are the most likely excitation source, the source could be anything from the output shaft of the transmission through to the tires, the vibration is in the body itself -- it's ringing like a tuning fork at a low frequency. Just like a tuning fork, if nothing of the same frequency is coupled to it, nothing happens. What makes the 5 different from other cars is the sensitivity (read as low damping, or low stiffness) to such a low frequency.

Changing the load distribution (moving people around) does change the vibration a bit.

exact and i mean exact same symptoms.. 45-55 i feel it.. and i look in the rear view and see the mid row headrest shaking.. i hit 60 and it goes away.. 75 and nada...

09gt 5at...

 

[coolmazda5]

and i look in the rear view and see the mid row headrest shaking

Here is a similar thread with video 2nd row vibration

I believe that is "normal" (i.e. 2nd row seats are not as rugged as the 1st row ones plus they are not anchored to the pillars as any other bench seats). The vibration described earlier by Mark787B and steve757 seems different however

 

[Mark787B]

What's odd to me is the inconsistency of the phenomenon-- both Steve and I have noted that warmer temperatures seem to make the situation worse. I usually note that the engine is smooth at idle, meaning that the mounts are doing their job at that RPM and under no load. I can place my hand on the passenger side mount for example and can easily tell that's the case. However, under load, and under some conditions, the mounts aren't able to do their job to mask what I have to believe is a known issue...

 

[Robotazky]

My almost-new '09 GT5 (auto tranny) is a bit rough at idle (vibration causes sun visor to shake, plus you can feel it and hear the engine doing a slight chugga-chugga noise). It is very smooth accelerating (so much so that I sometimes marvel that I am driving a 4-cyl car). From 45-55 mph there is a vibration, but not a horrible one. I only notice it if I am focused on trying to detect it. At highway cruising speeds (60-70 mph), there is some wind noise, but the ride is smooth if the roads are smooth. The car does seem to "feel" every slight bump and crack in the pavement, more so than other cars I have driven.

I am ordering a ground wire kit. Once it's installed, I'll let everyone know if it solves the rough idle. I doubt it will do anything about the 50 mph vibration, but on my 5, at least, that vibration is not so severe that I feel compelled to go to extraordinary lengths to eliminate it.

So do we get an update anytime soon on the grounding kit?

 

[Slashz28]

After 3K miles on my '09, the weird vibrations that I occasionally get from my 5 remain my only real gripe. I can point to the tires to some extent but tires are rarely a variable problem in my experience, they're either out of balance, defective, etc. or not.

That points me in the direction of engine mounts. Can any '08 or '09 5 owners chime in on the subject? I know that there was a design change somewhere in the 5's past that has the potential for adding vibration at idle. I do have this condition but it's sporadic. Next stop is the dealer of course...

Wife and I just purchased an 08 gt with 24k kms, auto, last week. Had brand new steelies+winter tires installed as well. Noticed that between 75-85 kms/h, we get vibes from the front end, especially noticeable in the passenger side footwell (kinda like accelerating with a bad axle). Most noticeable at 80 kmph on the nose. Sometimes it's not there though. Anyway, went through the previous owners service receipts, and she complained about the same vibe at 18k (on the stock wheels+tires), and the tech balanced the front tires. Dunno if the issue actually went away. IMO, these vibes are not due to the tires. I found a tsb online about 06-07's experiencing these issues, and that the fix was to change the # 3 and 4 motor mounts, but in turn that may cause more vibes at idle. I'm just gonna leave it like this for now, since the car drives 100% fine otherwise, no vibes at any other speeds, so it's fine. I'll see if the same vibe persists when I swap back to the stock wheels + tires come spring, and if it does, will take it in to see what they say. hth

TV

 

[KBrian]

Some winter wheels have required inserts (concentric rings) around the hub (hub-centric wheels) to smooth out vibration. If the vibration began after mounting the winter's, this could be the source of the trouble.

 

[Slashz28]

Some winter wheels have required inserts (concentric rings) around the hub (hub-centric wheels) to smooth out vibration. If the vibration began after mounting the winter's, this could be the source of the trouble.

If you're talking about my winter wheels, they're hub centric (correct centerbore diam.). Not "universal" fit.

 

[DiscoStew]

Same here

Been meaning to post this for a while... Noticed the vibration at 54 mph driving our new 2009 off the dealer lot. Car had 5 miles on it. You could hear and see the second row seats shaking and the child seats vibrating. I brought it to our local dealer (we had to go 200 miles to get the 5 we wanted) and they actually charged me $35 and told me it was a bad tire "out of round" - not their problem and to bring it up with the Toyo Dealer. Total jerks because I didn't buy the car from them (they couldn't get the car I wanted)! I usually bring my car to the dealer for maintenance, so they lost all of that revenue. SO short sighted.

The Toyo dealer said the tire was fine and Toyo would reject the claim. I paid the tire dealer $22 (they cut me a deal) to rebalance all four tires. They claimed the were pretty out of balance and one rim had a slight imperfection in round but they could be balanced. Anyway, that did not solve the problem. Interestingly, when I put my brand new rim and snow tire package on, the point of vibration was raised to about 62 mph but was still there. I have not had the snows checked for balance, but I guess that is the next step.

I have a feeling we are just going to have to live with this. I know my local dealer will be no help.

- Stew

 

[mpvue]

I brought it to our local dealer (we had to go 200 miles to get the 5 we wanted) and they actually charged me $35 and told me it was a bad tire "out of round" - not their problem and to bring it up with the Toyo Dealer. Total jerks because I didn't buy the car from them (they couldn't get the car I wanted)! I usually bring my car to the dealer for maintenance, so they lost all of that revenue. SO short sighted.


- Stew

I wouldn't be so quick to say the service dept had a grudge against you; sales and service are mutually exclusive, and I don't see how they would know they lost the sale (they get reimbursed from Mazda for warranty work so it shouldn't matter to them).
anyway, vibration is a hard thing to pin down, esp from written descriptions. another person may very well get in your car and not feel anything, or what they do feel is considered acceptable according to their experiences.
I notice an annoying droning/hum on a certain section of hwy I drive, so I know it's a tire/road interface issue. vibration? I guess I feel what could be called that sometimes, but it's nothing that is bothersome.
I have noticed something that did bother me. at least one of the wheels has a HUGE amount of balancing weights on it; I used to balance aircraft wheels, and there was a limit as to how many we could use befire the wheel was no longer serviceable, this wheel is way out. wouldn't know if the tire is bad or the wheel, but I suspect these tires won't last long anyhow.
I may wind up using the factory alloys for winter tires, and get a nice summer setup.

 

[BarryFive]

I wish I had read these postings before buying my brand new Mazda 5 this spring :-6.

I am also suffering from vibrations at cruise speed (80km/h). Changing tires Toyo -> Continental -> Michelin has not helped, though admittedly the Michelin tires seems to improve things a bit (but not enough). Has anybody found a good solution?

 

[Slashz28]

Well, we still have the vibe, but only on the drivers side in both front and middle seats. Steering wheel shimmies at same speeds, again, inconsistently. It's just weird. I don't drive the car often but when I do it annoys the heck out of me, because otherwise the car would/should be smoooth. I hope some kind of permanent fix is found for this. I did email mazda canada a few months back, and surprise surprise, did not even receive a reply. It's too bad.

 

[BarryFive]

Hi Steve,

Which software did you download to you iTouch?
Did it tell you the frequency of the vibrations (I would think around 5Hz).

Regards
B5

 

[Rocket]

Wasn't there a TSB about this that implicated the motor mounts? I think the solution was simply a shop procedure that realigned the engine in the mounts?