US Diesel's big splash introduction

Well, GMC's diesel CUV is out. Nice to see SOMEONE knows how to get something done.

That it is..but its also a) weak and b) overpriced but yeah man party in the back and the front.

BTW..I think you're naive if you don't think it helps to a) be a US brand and/or b) have deeper pockets than Mazda when it comes to getting a diesel done these days. This is not an excuse- they shouldn't have announced so early if all the details weren't ironed out but still.
 
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I have 2500 miles in 3 weeks and am really happy with my CX 5. I know the benefits of a diesel and was waiting for the Mazda diesel but I pulled the trigger and the only regrets that I have is the 12-20 mpg difference between the gas and diesel. Ive adapted to the mileage thing and in 3 weeks it isnt a big deal.
Happy because:
The 2.5L engine is powerful and quick enough for my aggressive moments behind the wheel.
The engine has been a proven over time.
Any diesel will have more complexity (filters and sensors) and the regeneration thing sounds if-y for my driving habits. The Mazda diesel might be adapted/changed for our market and that scares me a bit.
The 2018 2.5L hasnt been around as long as the existing 2.5L and who knows if its worth 1 mpg gain.

If you dont trailer distances or often, pull the trigger!
I wish you a good experience whatever decision you make.

Great car!

I wanted the diesel for the low end torque as much as the fuel economy. I drove a bunch of different diesel cars between 2010 and 2014, mostly over in the UK, and came to love the power delivery. They cruise effortlessly, they have enough torque reserve at cruising RPM that you can climb hills or accelerate moderately without downshifting, and throttle response feels more linear. A lot of the gasoline turbos now make full torque from around 2000 rpm, and in some cases below, which makes them feel somewhat diesel-like. When I test drove the CX-5, it felt "busy" during just casual driving: downshifting a lot, spending a lot of time up around 3-4k rpm. And it felt kind of wheezy when trying to simulate a passing maneuver (e.g. 40-60 mph, 50-70). Most of the alternatives I'm considering make more power and considerably more low end torque.

There's a lot of things I like about the CX-5: steering feel, styling, interior design, quiet cabin (except for engine noise), 40/20/40 rear seat. But I do not like the infotainment system (at all), and would like a stronger engine.

I'm contemplating a Mazda 3 Sport GT with a manual, or a Golf SportWagen with a manual. Both have the same power as the CX5, lower/better handling, cheaper and the Golf has just as much space and available AWD (albeit I'd prefer a Mazda product).

I've only ever owned manual transmissions, but I'm probably going to throw in the towel this time and get an auto. My wife is on my case about getting an automatic, so she can drive it as a backup, and if I insist on a manual that really limits my choices. For example, if I want a manual in an AWD wagon, I have to buy a lower trim Golf Sportwagen or Alltrack. You can't even get a manual in the 3-series wagon anymore. And if I want a manual in a SUV/CUV, I think my only option might be a lower trim Crosstrek (no thanks).

I test drove the Alltrack SEL and crossed it off my list. The back seat is too tight and a rear-facing car seat won't fit. It handles OK, probably about the same as the CX-5. Surprisingly, it feels a fair bit quicker than the CX-5. I liked the DSG. The interior is at the level of a $25k car though, not a $35k car.

Other than the CX-5, the only options left on my list are AWD sedans. Yesterday, I test drove a Ford Fusion Platinum AWD which I can get now for ~$30k thanks to the huge discounts. I liked the looks and the Platinum trim was fully loaded and very nice inside. It also handles very good for a family sedan and has decent power. Downsides are fuel economy and cargo space. The instrument cluster also looks dated. I also test drove a Subaru Legacy 3.6R. I know I said I wouldn't buy another Subaru, but it honestly wasn't bad. It didn't handle as good as the Fusion, but it was far from being a pig like my Outback. Better than the CX-5 I'd say. The CVT makes it slow off the line, but passing power is strong.

One more that I want to look at is the new Buick Regal Sportback, which is a rebadged German-built Opel Insignia. Dealers are just getting them now. The thing I like about it is that it has 30 cf of cargo space in the rear, or 60 with the seats folded, and has a 40/20/40 rear seat. So it's got the cargo space and flexibility of the CX-5 in a sedan body. The downside is that they're showing up fully loaded with sticker prices of $38-39k, and like the Alltrack the interior is at the $25k level.
 
I've only ever owned manual transmissions, but I'm probably going to throw in the towel this time and get an auto. My wife is on my case about getting an automatic, so she can drive it as a backup, and if I insist on a manual that really limits my choices. For example, if I want a manual in an AWD wagon, I have to buy a lower trim Golf Sportwagen or Alltrack. You can't even get a manual in the 3-series wagon anymore. And if I want a manual in a SUV/CUV, I think my only option might be a lower trim Crosstrek (no thanks).

I test drove the Alltrack SEL and crossed it off my list. The back seat is too tight and a rear-facing car seat won't fit. It handles OK, probably about the same as the CX-5. Surprisingly, it feels a fair bit quicker than the CX-5. I liked the DSG. The interior is at the level of a $25k car though, not a $35k car.

Other than the CX-5, the only options left on my list are AWD sedans. Yesterday, I test drove a Ford Fusion Platinum AWD which I can get now for ~$30k thanks to the huge discounts. I liked the looks and the Platinum trim was fully loaded and very nice inside. It also handles very good for a family sedan and has decent power. Downsides are fuel economy and cargo space. The instrument cluster also looks dated. I also test drove a Subaru Legacy 3.6R. I know I said I wouldn't buy another Subaru, but it honestly wasn't bad. It didn't handle as good as the Fusion, but it was far from being a pig like my Outback. Better than the CX-5 I'd say. The CVT makes it slow off the line, but passing power is strong.

One more that I want to look at is the new Buick Regal Sportback, which is a rebadged German-built Opel Insignia. Dealers are just getting them now. The thing I like about it is that it has 30 cf of cargo space in the rear, or 60 with the seats folded, and has a 40/20/40 rear seat. So it's got the cargo space and flexibility of the CX-5 in a sedan body. The downside is that they're showing up fully loaded with sticker prices of $38-39k, and like the Alltrack the interior is at the $25k level.

If your wife wants a backup car she should learn to drive a manual like a civilized person :p


Check on your 2018 GSW down in the US. In Canada they made the manual with AWD available in all trim levels for 2018. They're probably just showing up at dealers now though and who knows, they may not have updated the website yet to reflect the 2018 manual availability. Agreed on the interior though, no way I'd pay Alltrack dollars for a GSW with worse handling and ugly body cladding. At 'regular' GSW pricing it's fine though.

I'm going to cross shop the Regal TourX as well but I'm not a big fan of GM products (I know.... Opel) and it still wont come with a manual in which case I'd probably get a likely better/cheaper/better handling CX5 (with a diesel...?) or one of the other options.
 
Similar here, if not for the taxes, I'd do it in a heartbeat. This is definitely an example of taxes impeding commerce. Its especially galling if one must pay the full taxes for private party purchases, but only the net if one trades in the car to a dealer.

Sounds like you weren't really sold on the diesel to begin with. I'm looking forward to the better mileage, but also the feel of accelerating with more low end torque, lower revving on day to day driving feels less chintzy to me. I think the tow rating will be low on the diesel version as well. I'm sure the gas is plenty good for towing up to the meager rated capacity. My 1997 4 cylinder 2WD Nissan pickup is rated at 3500 lbs.

Diesel will be much slower to 60 or 30 for that matter when compared to 2.5L. From 0-60 should be a second slower. But once it gets upto speed, you wont need much downshifts when going up slight hills or inclines.
That is why for city driving - diesel wont make much difference. Dallas had bad rains this morning, strolled into work with 33.1 mpg for the trip. Diesel is great for rural / hill country / Highway drivers / people who tow very frequently.
For most other cases - if mpg is what you are looking for get a good 13 GT with 2.0L.
 
If your wife wants a backup car she should learn to drive a manual like a civilized person :p

Check on your 2018 GSW down in the US. In Canada they made the manual with AWD available in all trim levels for 2018. They're probably just showing up at dealers now though and who knows, they may not have updated the website yet to reflect the 2018 manual availability. Agreed on the interior though, no way I'd pay Alltrack dollars for a GSW with worse handling and ugly body cladding. At 'regular' GSW pricing it's fine though.

I'm going to cross shop the Regal TourX as well but I'm not a big fan of GM products (I know.... Opel) and it still wont come with a manual in which case I'd probably get a likely better/cheaper/better handling CX5 (with a diesel...?) or one of the other options.

I've tried teaching her to drive a manual, twice. Both times ended with a bit of a scary experience. Now they she hauls around our two kids, I'm not going to push her to try again. :)

Unfortunately, AWD is limited to the S trim of the Sportwagen down here. I checked and it will be the same for 2018 as well. Otherwise, people wouldn't buy the Alltrack I guess. I don't really mind the body cladding of the Alltrack; it's impossible to avoid some chrome these days. And the ride height increase wasn't enough to spoil handling. The price is unjustified though, and the small back seat is a killer for me.

I did look at the Regal TourX as well. It's a very nice looking wagon, it gives the Mazda6 wagon a run for its money. But the cargo capacity of the Sportback took me by surprise, 30 cf with the seats up. The TourX is $3k more, 16mm higher, and a little heavier. I don't need the extra space.
 
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Diesel will be much slower to 60 or 30 for that matter when compared to 2.5L. From 0-60 should be a second slower. But once it gets upto speed, you wont need much downshifts when going up slight hills or inclines.
That is why for city driving - diesel wont make much difference. Dallas had bad rains this morning, strolled into work with 33.1 mpg for the trip. Diesel is great for rural / hill country / Highway drivers / people who tow very frequently.
For most other cases - if mpg is what you are looking for get a good 13 GT with 2.0L.

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Diesel will be much slower to 60 or 30 for that matter when compared to 2.5L. From 0-60 should be a second slower. But once it gets upto speed, you wont need much downshifts when going up slight hills or inclines.
That is why for city driving - diesel wont make much difference. Dallas had bad rains this morning, strolled into work with 33.1 mpg for the trip. Diesel is great for rural / hill country / Highway drivers / people who tow very frequently.
For most other cases - if mpg is what you are looking for get a good 13 GT with 2.0L.

The diesels I've driven are frugal in the city too. I think it would be reasonable to expect about a 5 mpg advantage over the 2.5L in the city and 7-8 mpg on the highway.

Also, I don't think the difference it 0-60 will be that much. The horsepower is close, and diesel is only ~100 lbs. heavier.

Here's three 0-100km/h made by the same magazine. The first is a 2018 2.5L and the result is 8.2s. The second is a 2014 2.2D 175 hp and the result is 8.4s. The third is a 2017 2.2D 175 hp and the result is 8.6s, but that was done in the wet and you can see it gets hung up for a fraction of a second by wheelspin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWKc619UPuo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucdPKdGF7VQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvuHL959OoA

The diesel is not going to be any quicker in all-out acceleration, but the driving experience will be very different.
 
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Sounds like you weren't really sold on the diesel to begin with.

I was totally sold on the diesel. Then I learned what a bunch of nuts are running Mazda from the good people here on this forum - I have little faith that the NA version will be ready for prime time out of the gate.
I’ll await the reviews if the diesel ever shows.
 
The diesels I've driven are frugal in the city too. I think it would be reasonable to expect about a 5 mpg advantage over the 2.5L in the city and 7-8 mpg on the highway.

Also, I don't think the difference it 0-60 will be that much. The horsepower is close, and diesel is only ~100 lbs. heavier.

Here's three 0-100km/h made by the same magazine. The first is a 2018 2.5L and the result is 8.2s. The second is a 2014 2.2D 175 hp and the result is 8.4s. The third is a 2017 2.2D 175 hp and the result is 8.6s, but that was done in the wet and you can see it gets hung up for a fraction of a second by wheelspin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWKc619UPuo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucdPKdGF7VQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvuHL959OoA

The diesel is not going to be any quicker in all-out acceleration, but the driving experience will be very different.

Diesels may get better rolling response times
 
If you have a manual trans, or if you are shifting the auto in manual mode, and you don't downshift, then roll-on acceleration will be MUCH better with the diesel. The links above have 60-100km/h roll-on results in 4th gear and the results are 6.0s for the diesel and 9.4s for the 2.5L. However, if you don't hold the taller gear, and instead let each powertrain downshift to get in its best rpm range, then roll-on acceleration will come down to power/weight and the 2.5L will hold a slight advantage.
 
For me, because I don't do the kms, diesel is not worth having and 2.5L should be enough for me
 
That it is..but its also a) weak and b) overpriced but yeah man party in the back and the front.

BTW..I think you're naive if you don't think it helps to a) be a US brand and/or b) have deeper pockets than Mazda when it comes to getting a diesel done these days. This is not an excuse- they shouldn't have announced so early if all the details weren't ironed out but still.

Where you at, Mazduh?
https://www.dieselforum.org/diesel-drivers/clean-diesel-vehicles-available-in-the-u-s
 
Better hope that GovMo has learned something from their 350 Diesel engine that was total junk. As for the Equinox, double yawn.
 
Many are trucks/vans (different set of rules), many are not new- post dieselgate- duh yourself..

And yeah I'm likely a hard pass on GMs offering but I will check it out at some point I guess I owe it that much.
BMW- meh passing there too- the 6 is sweet- 335d was fn awesome but a bit more than I could swing back then, 0 desire for X5 - (cost or size)
Jag XE sportbrake would be interesting if that happens
MB made what was imo the best diesel 4 in the business, I was really looking forward to seeing it in other offerings beside that ugly and not so practical GLK but #dieselgate
So its likely Mazda or bust at this point.
 
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Many are trucks/vans (different set of rules), many are not new- post dieselgate- duh yourself..

And yeah I'm likely a hard pass on GMs offering but I will check it out at some point I guess I owe it that much.
BMW- meh passing there too- the 6 is sweet- 335d was fn awesome but a bit more than I could swing back then, 0 desire for X5
Jag XE sportbrake would be interesting if that happens
MB made what was imo the best diesel 4 in the business, I was really looking forward to seeing it in other offerings beside that ugly and not so practical GLK but #dieselgate
So its likely Mazda or bust at this point.

Fair enough, but right now, it seems like a bust to me, because Mazda ain't shown up.
 
How about a friendly prop bet..what happens first:

a) this thread has 1k replies
b) this thread has 100k views
c) mazda CX-5 diesel US on sale date is announced
d) none of these ever come to fruition
e) I give up and buy an orange Chevy Cruze diesel hatch with custom plate ptyinbck
 
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My dealer has started taking non refundable 5000 dollar deposits for the Diesel. He calls it - Alset. Just like Tesla, but in reverse. jejejejeje
 
How about a friendly prop bet..what happens first:

a) this thread has 1k replies
b) this thread has 100k views
c) mazda CX-5 diesel goes on sale in the US
d) none of these ever come to fruition
e) I give up and buy an orange Chevy Cruze diesel hatch with custom plate ptyinbck

Fixed it, and I'll pick "C", as a 2019 model at the earliest.
 
How about a friendly prop bet..what happens first:

a) this thread has 1k replies
b) this thread has 100k views
c) mazda CX-5 diesel US on sale date is announced
d) none of these ever come to fruition
e) I give up and buy an orange Chevy Cruze diesel hatch with custom plate ptyinbck

F- after you buy a Cruz, BnB drives down to Hudson Valley and beats you over the head with 12 pack of suds!
 
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