Understanding Understeering: You Are Not Alone If You Don't

mikeyb

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OK, class, listen up: Figure A is what happens when your front tires lose grip. It's called understeer or push. Figure B is what happens when your rear tires lose grip. It's called oversteer or fishtailing.

By Jack Lanier

Understanding Understeering: You Are Not Alone If You Don't

01-04-2005

I once heard an engineering professor spend 10 minutes attempting to answer a question about how antiroll bars work. The professor was no doubt a very bright guy, thoroughly trained in the theory of suspension design, but he was speaking without using a single word legal in Scrabble.

His audience was mainly engineering school graduates, some were currently working in the automotive industry. All very smart folks, but few had much practical, hands-on knowledge. I'm certain some of the younger ones had never seen an antiroll bar. By the time the teacher had finished, everyone was thoroughly confused. That included me and, probably, the prof.

I was likely the dumbest and certainly the least educated guy in the room, but I have spent many hours fiddling with antiroll bars (which some call "sway" bars) and other suspension components on both race- and street cars and I have pretty much every book and video on racecar suspension. So I asked the person who'd posed the original question: "Did you mean to ask, 'Explain what happens when you fit a stronger-rate bar?'" He said, "Yes," and I responded: "A stronger bar reduces grip on that end of the car. Tightening the front increases push; tightening the rear bar makes it looser."

It was exactly what he wanted to know. I could see lightbulbs going on all across the room, but that may have just been people waking up because the professor had stopped speaking. If you need to know more on antiroll bars, start reading books on racecar suspension adjustment and design. Racers don't care a bit about theory; they just want to go fast, right now.

My points: Whether the group is engineering school grads, those who work in the automotive industry, racers or car writers, the knowledge base is often a lot lower than many think. And, a simple answer may be all that's needed. It may be all that the audience can understand.

A couple of paragraphs ago, I threw around a couple of terms "push" and "loose" that far from every reader fully understood. These are terms oval-track drivers use to describe what happens when the car reaches the limit of tire grip. When you're driving as fast as possible (or hit an icy patch on a freeway ramp), one end of the car inevitably loses grip before the other. If that's the front tires, the car is pushing (or "tight"). If it's the rear tires, it's loose. Think of it this way: With push, you hit the wall with the front bumper; with loose, you hit the wall with the rear bumper. Stock car drivers use another term: "free." This means the fronts and rears are sliding at about the same rateit's really fast, but the driver will have a hard time racing it that way.

Rather than push, loose and free, engineers and road racers use "understeer," "oversteer" and "neutral" to describe the same things. On a recent TV broadcast Darrell Waltrip I hope in jest got the terms reversed. A friend who worked on Can-Am teams in the '70s told me a champion road racer said "push" when he meant "loose." Know this: understeer = push = crunched front bumper; oversteer = loose = crunched rear bumper; free = neutral = faaaast.

Right now, many of you are like another engineer I met recently. He fully understood the meaning of understeer and oversteer: In fact, part of his job was producing three-dimensional graphs showing what all four tires on a racecar were doing at any one momentbut he didn't know what it felt like to have a car push or go loose. He was like a blind person who could describe the Mona Lisa.

Push/understeer feels like the steering column has suddenly transformed into rubber: You've got the wheel cranked left but the car isn't turning nearly as much as you'd like. In severe cases, it feels as if the steering wheel has snapped off: No matter how much you turn the wheel the car goes straight.

Loose/oversteer, to most highway drivers, feels much like hitting a tree or running into a ditch, because that's what their car does when it goes loose. A race driver battling a loose car feels what the outside rear tire is doing. Before the rear end steps out there's a lightness or, sometimes, shuddering in the outside rear tire: That's the tire saying, "Whoa, that's about all I can take!"

So don't feel inferior if you don't know all the terms bandied about by car writers, broadcasters and professors. They may not fully understand them either.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=104166#

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Another 2 cents:
If you feel your car begin to understeer, or push, do the opposite of what your instincts tell you to do...UNwind the steering wheel until the front tires get a chance to regain grip, then smoothly try again. If you keep turning the steering wheel in a sharper and sharper line, your car will do nothing but plow. (drive)
 
i'ce never had oversteer, but i had understeer on my way to school this morning (no)
 
I think I've heard people say the MSP is prone to oversteer, but I've only had it once, and understeer once, so I can't confirm or deny it.
 
my car was really prone to understeer during tight autox courses(but that could be due to my driving style) but at high speed esp slaloms, the cars tendency to oversteer became very apparent, yet controllable.
 
if you watn to try out some oversteer then remove one front sway-bar endlink. you'll get mad crazy oversteer. also, if you find that your car understeers a bit when you drive aggressively then upgrade your rear sway-bar to something a little thicker.
 
Natey said:
Another 2 cents:
If you feel your car begin to understeer, or push, do the opposite of what your instincts tell you to do...UNwind the steering wheel until the front tires get a chance to regain grip, then smoothly try again. If you keep turning the steering wheel in a sharper and sharper line, your car will do nothing but plow. (drive)


This also applies to oversteer. The instict will be to get on the brakes to slow down to a "safer" speed. But in reality, that will only take weight off the rear, making the oversteer worse. Gently roll on the throttle and let the car pull you through. Usually, you can even let go of the steering wheel and the car will "right" itself. (I'm not responsible if you die though..)

Trailbraking is also not to be forgotten when you come in too hot and you can feel the understeer demon breathing down your neck ;)
 
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That "article" and your description on swaybars seems to only reflect on double wishbone suspensions. MacPherson strut cars lose camber under load therefore creating understeer. A LARGER front swaybar can actually reduce understeer by maintaining better traction for the front tires allowing the rear to track with the car.

My understanding of "neutral" is that oversteer can be acheived with throttle, so it seems like it can only really be associated with RWD, maybe AWD with a scary setup and mad power.

My car is set up very loose and it is bone stock...but my alignment is nowhere near factory settings. I have to always remind my wife when she takes my car out to be careful because it could get her into trouble. I need to be better about changing my toe after Autocrosses.
 
apexlater said:
My understanding of "neutral" is that oversteer can be acheived with throttle, so it seems like it can only really be associated with RWD, maybe AWD with a scary setup and mad power.

I believe that "neutral" could also describe a FWD car if you have off-throttle oversteer. My car is setup so that decent amounts of throttle will cause the car to understeer, but letting off the throttle in a turn causes oversteer. Once I initiate a turn with the steering wheel I can control the rest of the turn with just the throttle input.
 
xelderx said:
I believe that "neutral" could also describe a FWD car if you have off-throttle oversteer. My car is setup so that decent amounts of throttle will cause the car to understeer, but letting off the throttle in a turn causes oversteer. Once I initiate a turn with the steering wheel I can control the rest of the turn with just the throttle input.

same here! I love how my p5 handles!

some more advice is if you are understeering and things don't look good lightly apply braking pressure to transfer extra weight up front and also slow the car a little.
 
hey thanks for posting this, i was gonna ask what the difference was between understeer and oversteer but i was afaird that people would just flame it and would never find out the difference. thanks bro.
 

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