tuning question

TheStuartKid

Member
:
2008 mazdaspeed3
Ive been hearing from some people that if you put an after market downpipe and race pipe on your ms3 that you need to tune it or else youll melt your motor? is this true? can i deal without a tune for alittle bit even if that is true? i appreciate the feedback.
 
I was running a corksport catless dp and race pipe for 2 or 3 years before I finally got a hypertech tuner and never had any issues. I would just see spikes in boost up to around 19 psi, so hopefully you have gauges or dashhawk to monitor that. I'm not to sure of the differences between catless or a catted dp, maybe someone with a catted dp can chime in, but hope that helps.
 
thanks man i appreciate it. im getting ready to buy a turbo xs downpipe and race pipe. i was hesitant on buying it because i didnt know if i need it tuned but if you went 3 years without it then im sure ill be fine.
 
Unless you know your stock fuel pump can cope with the extra stress you run the risk any time you mod the car. Get fuel pump internals, and if you want the most out of the car and a way to tune as you mod get yourself an AccessPort.
 
^ OP, look at mods in my signature. I went over 40,000 miles on this car with the TurboXS catless 3" downpipe and racepipe combo into the stock CBE and did so without a tune or without upgraded fuel pump. It is a huge power gainer combined with a good intake.

I would recommend you run one step colder plugs and gap them pretty tight - .028. However there will be issues. I learned the hard way that the increased flow does put a strain on the already marginal high pressure fuel pump and you are also certain to see boost spikes in the 21 psi range. I did not lose the engine, but the fuel pump crapped out and I could have blown. I was monitoring at the time and caught the gradually lowering drops in pressure under load.

Those spikes can be damaging also.

My advice is that while you can run a catless dp/rp without a tune and without upgrading the fuel pump internals, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU NOT DO SO UNLESS YOU CAN MONITOR FUEL RAIL PRESSURE.

The best solution is to upgrade the pump internals and get a tuning solution. Hypertech works extremely well with my combo of mods and will get you 95% of the maximum power increase available on the stock turbo on pump gas with complete safety. It eliminated the boost spikes I was seeing and expanded the power curve, especially at high rpm. In combo with the dp/rp and pump internals upgrade, it is dynamite.
 
I never had an issue with my racepipe... but a catless downpipe, agreed. Fact, I never had any issue until I started tuning. I had a pretty decent fuel pump.
 
Alright sounds good, I was seeing boost spikes when I had my race pipe and downpipe. I thought lost boost when I was normally holding 15 because I originally saw 21 but then I read up and realized it was a boost spikes. What should my afr be reading? When I get on it I see 11's and then at the end of my gear it goes into high 10's, is that normal?
 
You might not do any harm...but the incidence rate of catestophic failure is definately increased. Get upgraded fuel pump internals and acessport.
 
Pig rich on stock tune is a good thing for the K04 on pump gas. This is a deliberate engine development design and for a good reason. It provides cylinder cooling that reduces the risk of detonation and permits more aggressive timing advance to build power. Gasoline is excellent at absorbing heat. On the other hand, there has been shown to be little benefit on this engine to lean out the AFR's under high boost, high load, high rpm conditions and it is probably detrimental.

And yes, AFR's in the 11's and even down to the 10's at high rpm are normal on this engine on stock tune. Those AFR's also provide a measure of safety if the pump pressure should drop -- up to a point. The ECU is programmed to maintain target AFR at all cost to save the engine. So, what happens when pump pressure drops is that the ECU tells the fuel injectors to stay open longer on each cycle - that is called "widening injector pulse width." If pressure drops, the ECU compensates by increasing volume. This can only work up to a point. Once that adjustment range is exceeded, then AFR's lean out and the engine can get damaged.

Another downside to drop in fuel pressure is that high pressure provides excellent atomization of the fuel allowing it to burn more efficiently. Drop pressure and less atomization. Combine that with extra volume to compensate and you run the risk of another phenomenon that is not good for this engine -- the pooling of unburned fuel on the top of the pistions. This is an open invitation for engine failure and has been so documented graphically on another of the Mazda boards.

Bottom line, IMHO, is if you are going to increase exhaust side flow with a big downpipe, it is strongly advisable to upgrade the pump internals. It is very expensive to replace the engine on these cars.
 
I havent put a fuel pump and I havent have any issues I have a big turbo and not tune yet been running like that for atles 6.momths no problems
 
Big turbo + stock tune + stock fuel pump? On a Gen 2. Really? No issues? Please describe mods and would you post a datalog please? Sounds like you've been very lucky.
 
I feel safe saying that there isn't one MS3 BT owner who doesn't have a monitoring device...not to mention an upgraded HPFP. The stock tune couldn't handle that right? You must be hitting your head alot from all the cuts... why am I still entertaining this?

I'm out until more info. is divulged.
 
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