Traction bars

[twilightprotege]

since i drag race my car i've been looking into what the honda guys do since a lot of them race, and race very quickly. i found they use a setup called tracions bars.

basically i links the bottom arm of the suspension to the front of the car and pivots accordingly. it's designed to stop the arm moving backwards and forwards due to wheel hop etc. they have reduced 60ft times by 0.2 seconds in some cases which is a MASSIVE reduction. they also use the traction bars to great effect in autox.

so, has anyone made a setup for their p5 etc like the honda traction bars?

here's a link to some info : http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=957387 (long, but interesting read)

 

[twilightprotege]

also here : http://forums.probetalk.com/archive/index.php/t-1701073304.html

 

[twilightprotege]

bumpy bump?

 

[A.V.MSP]

Ive been wanting these but cant ever find any, free bump for info

 

[CWiLL]

id like to see something for us dragracers. i think we have to custom fab something

 

[twilightprotege]

i'm going to look at fabbing it up for my car. got heaps of info from the honda sites. going to have a detailed look under my car this weekend to see if it's possible. will be buying a high end mig shortly to replace my old hos and it'll fly through all this kinda stuff

 

[khaosman]

Hmm... is this similar to the frame lock thing made for hondas?

 

[twilightprotege]

i've only ever seen these referred to as traction bars

 

[NVP5White]

I think that traction bars would be a difficult implimentation for our cars. I do think there is a possibility of getting similar results by eefing up existing suspension part, however. The 'front lower arm' (#3) and the 'transverse member' (#7) sould be replaced with stronger/better engineered peicing that may improve wheel's stability.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/NVP5White/New Picture.JPG

The transverse member could theoretically be made out of any material (steel tubing, steel plate, forger or machined aluminum) and be just about any size/wieght as this is an unsprung part.

The front lower arm, however, does count as sprung wieght and it also has a tighter space to fit within. As with most suspension parts, this one would seriously ruin your day if broken, so liability is also a factor.

All in all, I like the fact that if successful, you wouln't have to modify the unitbody.

...that last comment got me thinking though. When i use the front jack point to raise the car, the body seems to have a lot of flex. This is probably flexing where the front subframe connects to the rest of the unit body. Mazda uses rubber to isolate the engine cradle and sub frame from the rest of the car for NVH deadoning(SP), right? What if you removed those rubber peices and replaced with something that created a more positive connection. No doubt the car would be louder from an increase in NVH, but you might see improvement similar to that of traction bars.

 

[twilightprotege]

anything that's easy isnt worth doing

i'm still doing to try and work out if a traction bar is viable. it would connect to around where the line coming from the "3" is in your pic

 

[vindication]

where would the radius bars be connected in out cars?

 

[twilightprotege]

i'm thinking of making a new bar that'll go infront of the radiator support and the bar will connect to that. we just have to make the mounting point for the bar in the same axis as where the lower arm pivots, that way it'll be fine for any driving condition

 

[vindication]

yeah, but we cant just make it any angle can we? I know the radius bar mounting to the bar that will be in front is easy but mounting the other end is gonna be a pain no? are you saying you're gonna mount it to the lower control arm? is that the right way?

 

[NVP5White]

anything that's easy isnt worth doing

Good point...and without understanding what part is the weak link in the equation, its difficult to make a replacement part that would solve the problem.

As for the Trailing link style traction bar, I think that moving the connection to the body farther towards the front of the car might just change the location of the problem. I;m still not convinced that the front of the car is "stiff" enough to make a difference. Again, I have to point to my experience while jacking the car (which I did a number of times while replacing my oil and MTF this weekend). The front flexes a lot more than I would have expected when I take it from jack stand to jack at the front jacking point. I know this is a reflection of the frames resistence to bending, which may not be the force in effect while accelerating and braking, but it still points to an overall weakness of the chassis.

My suggestion might be to attach the traction bar from the Front Lower Arm to back to the part of the frame that sits about 10 inches in from the side seam of the car behind the front wheel. It looks like a section of box-frame that is stong and in a good place to recieve a joint. Maybe I'll take a picture this afternoon.

 

[twilightprotege]

we can make it any angle, however, where the bar connects to the car (not the arm) must be in the same line as where the arm pivots. limits the bar's angle. and yes, you mount it to the lower arm. if you have the mounting point on the car in the same line as where the arm pivots then you'll never had a problem because it'll move in line with the control arm if that makes sense

well most of the car is a weak link. nothing is ultra strong in any mass produced car. hell i'd think honda would have better suspension components to mazda and the honda guys get big differenced from this setup. in terms of the mounting points. you have a bar that connects the two sides of the chassis and the bar connects to that. definately there is no point on the car as it stands that'll be stiff enough

i wouldnt put the bar behind the suspension either. think of it this way. when you're accelerating the wheel and suspension is wanting to pull forward right? if you have the bar setup at the rear and above the lower arm, as the suspension pulls away the abr will pull the suspension up and you'll lose traction. if you have it at the front of the car and the mounting point on the car above the mounting point on the lower arm, when you take off, the suspension moves forward and the bar will basically push the suspension down on to the road giving greater traction...ie the point of this

 

[NVP5White]

Good points...all of them. I suppose ANY reduction in wheel movement will be a big help in your driving (dragging) situation. Keep us updated on the project if you decide to undertake it.

 

[twilightprotege]

not just drag racing, it's also of great benefit for autox (well according to honda sites)

 

[flat_black]

Hmm... Some traction bars make it very hard to steer the car away from dead center, in my experience. But I suppose it really depends on the design.

 

[twilightprotege]

how do you mean? drive anything other than straight?

 

[flat_black]

Yeah, 'zactly. =)