2016~2023 Towing capabilities: CX-9 vs Ascent

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2017 CX9 GT AWD
Wondering how is it that the 2.5 turbo of the CX-9 with up to 250 hp tows 3500 lbs, but the 2.4 turbo of the Subaru Ascent with 260 hp can tow up to 5000 lbs.

If anyone can educate me on why there's such a difference with similar sized engines I'd be interested how that works.
 
I think a lot of it has to do with vehicle design, specifically the framework and the suspension, in addition to the engine capability, transmission, and brakes.

EDIT: Actually I'm not so sure anymore, I just checked Subaru's site and compared the base model Ascent with a Premium Ascent. Base model tows 2000 while Premium tows 5000. Engine and trans are the same, and I'm sure frame is the same. Maybe the higher trims get a standard tow package or something.
 
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There was another thread on the towing limit of the CX-9. No one knows for sure here why it is so low. But towing limits are kind of all over the place. Often the towing package from other manufacturers is a transmission cooler and a bigger radiator and all of a sudden the car can tow an extra 1500 lbs.

To me i think transmission cooling, no wiring for brake controllers and nose lift from the suspension are what is keeping the CX-9 from having a higher tow rating. But that is just my wild guess.

Here is a good article on towing with the CX-9. But notes that members here have been towing up to the CX-9 rated limit without much of an issue. You do feel it but it is still very manageable.

 
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I think lawyers are more involved than engineers in setting towing limits. They are huge differences between Euro and NA limits for essentially identical cars.

And then the marketing people get involved. If they say that towing isn’t very important to the target market, then limits are low (or towing is prohibited all together).

As others have said, even on the engineering side, there’s many other factors than just engine hp/torque.

- Mark
 
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Another factor is how much steel, for strength, the designers put into the frame part that holds the hitch receiver. More steel = more weight = worse gas mileage.
 
It's the transmission cooler that makes the difference in the various Ascent models.

The link below is a messy page but it's about 1/3 down. Standard on all but the base.

 
I am an avid consumer of YouTube videos on RVing and have learnt a thing or two about towing. I have a 2012 CX-5 GT. It did not come with a tow hitch or wiring, but I had these installed at U-Haul not long after I bought it used in 2014. I did this with the intention of mounting a bicycle rack to the rear, but included the wiring harnessin case I ever wanted to tow a light utility trailer.

If you need to tow on a regular basis, your tow vehicle needs different maintenance. The cooling system, brakes, transmission and bearings are all going to work harder and hotter and will need servicing more frequently than normal. You should also be careful about how fast you're going, not only because your vehicle might overheat more quickly, but many trailer tires have fairly low speed ratings, and a trailer tire failure can be pretty horrific.

If you're planning to take long trips towing a travel trailer, the Mazda CX-9 is not the appropriate vehicle. There are many vehicles on sale in the USA that have been designed to tow, and have specialty tow packages installed. For example, the Ford F Series trucks (and the Ford Expedition SUV) have tow packages that include an augmented cooling system for the transmission, more robust brakes, different transmission, and integrated trailer brake controllers, among other necessary equipment. FCA, GM, Toyota and Nissan have similarly equipped trucks and large SUVs.

If you're going to be towing a lightweight utility trailer around town to pick up the odd load of mulch for your garden, or take some trash to the dump, or even take a trip with you, your spouse and five kids, towing a utility trailer with luggage, then the Mazda CX-9 will probably be fine, but again, you'll need to match your speed to the rating of the trailer's tires. If you're doing the road trip using a utility trailer for your luggage, you'll need to make sure you're within the total Gross Combined Weight Rating. If you exceed the weight that your vehicle is rated for and get involved in a collision, your insurer may well deny coverage.
 
If you're planning to take long trips towing a travel trailer, the Mazda CX-9 is not the appropriate vehicle. There are many vehicles on sale in the USA that have been designed to tow, and have specialty tow packages installed.

Thanks for the good information. I didn't start the subject to discuss if the CX-9 could tow trailers or not (it can). It was about why with nearly identical specs the Ascent can tow 1500 lbs more.

One thought was better transmission cooling. I think we could add an aftermarket transmission cooler, but I don't think that would suddenly make it be able to tow another 1500 lbs (although it might be good to do add that anyway if doing a lot of towing).

Just was wondering what the difference is and still don't quite understand what it is.

Here's a thread about someone towing with the CX-9: https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/index.php?threads/towing-with-your-cx-9.123866108/
 
The previous generation had the same 3,500 pound towing capacity if you had the tow package, which consisted of a beefier radiator with a larger transmission cooler, larger cooling fans, and a remapped ECU/TCU (and I think a wiring harness). Without that option, it was 2000 pounds.

I think it boils down to a conscious decision on Mazda's part to save weight and money, which translates into better corporate average fuel economy, higher profit margins, and a lighter, more fun to drive vehicle. The CX-9 has a lower gross vehicle weight rating than the Ascent as well, so I'd guess that Mazda equipped tires with a lower load rating, lighter duty brakes, and a suspension that's tuned more for carlike handling than outright load capacity. Mazda also has the sales figures from the previous generation and can make a judgement on how important towing is/was to their customers based on how "in demand" the tow package option was. My guess is they didn't lose enough sales to offer an uprated tow package on the current generation.
 
I think lawyers are more involved than engineers in setting towing limits. They are huge differences between Euro and NA limits for essentially identical cars.
Here's an interesting video about towing capacity between NA and Euro cars and why essentially the same car in NA often has more towing capacity in Europe:


By the way, I think the European and Australian CX-9 has a tow rating of 2000kg or 4400 lbs -- 900 lbs more than the NA CX-9.
 
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