Towing 4000lb sailboat with CX9 - is it realistig and safe or is it hopeless?

[romandesign]

Towing 4000lb sailboat with CX9 - is it realistic and safe or is it hopeless?

We are looking for a 7-seat crossover that has good handling and cargo room, decent fuel economy and doesn't cost too much. I checked out everything that is available here in Canada. I like Mazda CX9 the most by far than other alternatives. There is one problem though: I hope to by a trailerable sailboat within the next 2 years: Macgregor 26X weighs around 3700 lbs to 4000 lbs with trailer and all equipment. All canadian CX9s are AWD, have "towing prep" package and are rated to tow 3500 lbs, which seems not enough.

However I have found out a curious fact: australian CX9 which seems to be completely identical is rated to tow 2000 kg (around 4400 lbs). People say that towing ratings on some vehicles are often low in US due to litigious environment.

If you look at the rough weights math it seems logical: according to weights I found on the internet (so please correct me if it's not correct) iit looks lke 8560 (GCVWR) - 4540 (empty Mazda) = 4020 (for loaded trailer and anything/anyone in the Mazda) which is close tp australian rating. Plus many vehicles have different rating for boats because of theirsuperior aerodinamic qualities relative to carvans for example. I need it for trips of up to 6 hours, Ontario is pretty much flat and weight of my family won't exceed 350 lbs for the life of this car. Add about 150 lbs for light gear and food for 2-3 days and we get to 4200 to 4500 which seems doable considering australian rating.

Anyway, even AWD with aftermarket hitch (like Hidden Hitch rated for 4000 lbs) Towing 3700-4000lbs seems to be uncertain. So I'm looking for advice and experienced opinions:

Is it possible and safe to tow 3700-4000lbs boat with AWD CX9 with 4000lbs-rated class III hitch?
Have you towed something as heavy on highways and what was your experience?

Due to exorbitant insurance rates in Ontario getting a cheap old truck just for towing sailboat is not an option. It will have to be one 7-seater SUV that does it all, or I won't be able to afford the sailboat. I'd like that SUV to be CX9 if at all possible.

Has anyone towed comparable weights with CX-9? Is it safe?

I'd appreciate all advice. Thanks.

 

[ceric]

No experience with towing here.
However, tow rating is indeed a trade-off among
1) powertrain/cooling system's capability of handling heat
2) long-term reliability issue (e.g. shortening transmission lifespan under high-temp) - i.e. warranty issue
3) gain more buyers who need to tow

And, US does have the higher density of litigious people living here. No doubt about that.
And, I don't think Mazda did anything special for Australian market.

Other than those, see what others' experiences are and you have to make your own call.
Remember: the rating also includes cargo and passengers weight. In most cases, you can tow less than 3000lbs
(w/ 3500lb rating). That is, if you follow everything down to the letters.

 

[romandesign]

Sure, I added our weight and cargo in these rough calculations. Also "dry" boat with trailer weighs ~2700 lbs, plus ~300 for the motor - I took boat weight from the forums as realistic weight of well-equipped boat.

 

[table5511]

My opinion is that it would be ok for short distance towing, and infrequently. Engine/trans/cooling is one issue, but other things to consider also are brakes, unibody strength and rear suspension. I towed the largest cargo trailer U-Haul rents and made a one-way trip hauling about 1 or 2,000lbs of stuff, and it was all fine and well on flat roads, but when we got onto a back road that was really hilly with alot of curves and stop signs, I experienced some significant brake temps, smoke from the rotors, etc.

 

[romandesign]

I'm looking at maximum of 3 or 4 trips a year, each up to 6 hours long (mostly on highway) and Ontario is for the most part flat as a table.

 

[jediwebdude]

Typically you want to tow at 80% of your tow rating. With boats, you get some leniency since they are more aerodynamic than a box trailer or camper trailer. I think you'll be okay since your roads will be flat. I recommend not going over 60mph, and driving one gear down. Not sure what speed current transmissions are, but our 2008 is a 6-speed. So if towing, I would drive on the highway in 5th gear.

We bought our CX-9 GT with the towing pkg because I knew there would be times I towed. Most I pulled was 2,800 lbs across flat Texas roads. It did fine.

 

[nuru]

I would recommend that you use a trailer that has electronic brakes so you do not put all the braking stresses on your CUV's brakes.

 

[romandesign]

I think factory Mcgregor 26X trailer has surge brakes. They are not triggered by tow vehicle electrically as I understand, but by the deceleration force. Same result I thnk - they actively helpstopping the trailer.

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

Please have the Brake Controller installed if it required/available...

It will be hell on your engine to pull that pig of a load... but I think that if the brake issue is not addressed, you would be as dangerous on the road as a drunk driver... That will be like trying to stop a 8000 Lb Car, that is designed to be only 4000 Lbs...

Spend the extra time to be certain that the trailer can stop 100% of it's own duty and not put any additional stress on the CX-9 System..

You will crash into someone, or at best warp the front brakes...

Being able to manually apply some rear brake is simply safer...

 

[romandesign]

Sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure you actually can add a brake controller to sure brakes. I don't know anyting anout trailer brake systems, but I think surge brakes are triggered the moment tow vehicle starts actively decelerating. If at all possible without changing the whole raking system I would add a controller, but I doubt it's possible on surge brakes.

How would I test the traler braking? I wonder how it's done, especially with surge brakes that need deceleration to trigger and even with normal brakes -how would I know they are working?

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

You could test by making a brake application to the vehicle without the trailer and noticing how much distance you need to come to a stop...

then ...

repeat the process with the trailer and a similar pedal application of force. You can see if the trailer is taking its fair share of the braking if they both stop approximately the same distance..

 

[zoommx5]

This is my first post here..I may be buying a CX-9 in the near future. Currently have a 2010 MX-5 and a 2005 4runner V8 AWD.

I too am a sailor. Com-pac 19 , displacement 2000lbs. Full rig (trailer, boat and all gear) weighs about 2950lbs.

First off, I think you need to check the specs on the 26X displacement. I thought they weight WAAY less than the figure you've given. Of course you need to add trailer, motor and gear weight. Also keep in mind the weight given by boat manufacturers are almost always too low. Since the 26X's are water ballasted, the tow weight would NOT include the water ballast or "in the water" displacement, provided the water is jettisoned before towing--or even before pulling it out of the water. This significantly changes the responses here!!!

What I will say is my 4runner V8 tows the CP19 with relative ease. Sure it's not as responsive as without the boat in tow, but it does really well considering the load.
I use a slip so I'm not towing it every week, but we'll take it 400 miles one way on trips across the flat midwest and a few hours here and there to go to other lakes. I keep the speed below 65 and stop to let things cool every hour or so. I'm not concerned about the truck..it will tow 7K and is generally a beast, but the trailer wheel bearings and tires do get warm.
I suspect the CX-9 will pull my boat use fine too, not with "ease" but more "adequate". I don't know yet, haven't got the CX-9 and the boat is stored for the winter.

Back to the sailboat, Been sailing for a few years now. I DEFINITELY suggest you keep for mind open to other boats. Macgregors are not very good sailboats, IMO. They sail poor to weather, slip sideways and are built with light construction. In other words, stuff will break on you and you'll be using the motor a lot to get upwind. Also a 26 foot boat is HUGE when it comes to trailerable boats. Setting it up will take a while, despite the companies marketing claims of rigging ease. There is a lot more to it than raising a mast. I realize they are also able to be equipped with large motors and can plane to quite a bit higher speeds than displacement boats, giving a "dual purpose" impression.. But in the end, they are not very good sailboats or motor boats. Sorry if I've made you upset here, my intent is simply to inform and not insult in ANY way. I'm not one to stir the pot or insult anyone--just want to help you out.

Similar to a motorcycle, I recommend starting small and you'll get a MUCH better feel for what you do want by the second season. Leave the wife and kids at home on the small boat...learn how to sail then move up. Nothing will scare the family away from sailing faster than a new captain making noobie mistakes (lol...I still make them after 12 years of sailing!). So many stories of that happening. Sailing is enjoyable and I wish you the best with your boat, whichever you choose.

Now back to our regularly scheduled CX-9 programming

 

[nuru]

I am not sure, but I thought the electronic brakes are keyed by power being applied to the brake lights?

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

No it is more complicated than just on and off..

There is a variable circuit there that balances brake load based on the pedal force.

 

[romandesign]

I DEFINITELY suggest you keep for mind open to other boats.

Thanks for the advice. I know the Mac shortcomings and I don't expect it to be a super sailboat - more like family weekender. I think its advantages overweight its shortcomings for me personally, but I have yet to sail it myself, so my opinion may change. I'll definitely will check it out thoroughly before deciding to buy one. And of course, for the first season at least, no family on board As for stuff breaking - I saw no complains from huge Mac forums user base. People say things look a bit cheap but it seems the tolerances are just right for them not to break. What other trailerable sailboats do you think I should check out? I'm definitely open to suggestions.

As for weight - the number (3700-4000lbs with trailer, fuel, 50HP engine and fully equipped) are from the Mac forums, they are from people who weighted their rigs on scales. So while it may come out lighter for me, I have to take those numbers as a guideline. I think the raw boat is around 2700 lbs, but then there is fuel, equipment, engine, port-a-potty, the trailer itself etc. It adds up.

 

[romandesign]

I am not sure, but I thought the electronic brakes are keyed by power being applied to the brake lights?

From what I understand, you need brake controller for trailer with electric brakes. It applies brakes proportionally to your vehicle and you can also manually activate trailer brakes to control sway. However with surge brakes there is no controller. Brakes are activated independently of tow vehicle pedal - when tow vehicle starts braking, the trailer pushes on the hitch and than activates the surge brake master cylinder, so the more you brake - the more trailer bakes are applied.

 

[zoommx5]

Hi Roman-

First, I'm glad you're open minded about the first boat, and it sounds like you have a great deal of prudence and foresight. I'm also glad you didn't fire me off a hate message for suggesting to look elsewhere--as I mentioned I truly did not intend to stir the pot but rather help you from making a decision you may regret Quite often folks by sailboats way too big the first time.

As for the weight, I would be inclined to 100% believe owners who have weighed their boats with gear. That's the most realistic figure you can count on! You're right...when you add up al the extra's it adds up! I think I underestimated the amount of fuel and the weight of the engine on the 26X, so you're figures do make much more sense.

With that said, 4K pounds would overload a CX-9, at least from the legal perspective. It may be able to pull it, but if you have an accident the insurance lawyers will have a field day with you. I hate to say it, but sounds like you need a better tow vehicle if you want to tow it. My 4runner V8 would be up to the task but I wouldn't want to take it up a mountain or long distances (hundred miles or more). I tow our boat 400 miles one way each summer and trust me, it's stressful even with a capable tow vehicle. I did tow about 5k pounds once (a heavy farm trailer with tractor) and it was sluggish and felt on the border of overload, even though it technically can tow much more.

I'm also inclined to believe owners who say the boat is built to standards that are acceptable. That's great news. I stepped aboard one once in Lake Erie, and compared to our last Compac, a 16, and current 19 it seemed flimsy. It may just be that the Com-pacs are OVER built like tanks so anything less seemed "not right". Sort of like going from a Lexus to a Kia. Even so, we all know Kia's are actually pretty decent cars, but the perception from coming from a Lexus would seem the Kia is cheap when it's not.

Buying a first sailboat normally is brought with a heavy dose of fantasy. Almost everyone dreams of spending a weekend on it, maybe cruising a few days or more., as you'll read online and in the magazines. Reality is very few folks have the time to do so, and even fewer have crew willing to spend all weekend in confined quarters, rolling with the water movement and baking in the hot sun. Some can and do it for much longer periods. If you really feel you and crew will spend a lot of time aboard, by all means the bigger the better. I could sail the Com-pac 19 solo for 4 or 5 days (camping out on the boat), but the wife won't do it. She wants A/C and a comfy hotel bed each night. Depends on how tough your crew is.

What I would do is buy a very cheap used small boat, like a West Wight Potter 18, Com-pac 16, Montgomery 15 or 17, O'Day Daysailor, Precision 18 or even something smaller to learn how to sail and get a feel for sailing and what is entailed. Rigging will be fairly quick which means more time on the water and less EFFORT. It takes a considerable amount of time bending on large sails, rigging lines, raising mast, etc. On a small boat it's 20 minutes, on a larger it may take 1 1/2 hours. Catalina's are also decent as are Hunters, but they felt even cheaper than the Mac (more so the Hunters than Catalina's). Luxury will be low, but think temporary and "starter". The reason I say cheap is to resell it quickly after you've learned to sail and build confidence. It will take a lot longer to build confidence on a bigger boat (sort of learning to drive a semi truck when you're 16), and crew patience while rigging a large boat will be an issue. Some folks adapt just fine, others not so much. Having it pre-rigged in a dry dock or in a slip will avoid this hassle entirely (just once a year rigging).

OR what a lot of folks do is to tag along with your local small boat racers during race nights (Sundays and Wednesdays are common), ask to crew and let an experienced sailor show you the ropes. I guarantee you'll get to crew..racers are always looking for help. You'll learn rapidly from an experienced person. After 2 or 3 races, your confidence will go WAY up. Zero cost, no storage, no hassle and you build confidence. Then buy a boat you think will work for you as a beginner to go sailing for a day. Now I'm not saying a 26X won't work as a beginner boat, what I'm saying is the learning curve will be higher. Also with something small and cheap, you'll see if your crew REALLY can do a weekend, or if a few hours if their limit. That will bring fantasy to reality real quick!! Frankly that is a big factor--if the wife and kids aren't happy, you're miserable too.

You can do one or the other while looking for the next boat. That will avoid the dreaded "must have a 26x-itus" and perhaps choosing the first boat you see, rather than the "best".
They can be very expensive to fix problems caused by poor care or abuse, so this is important to get right ( a marine surveyed can be hired to help assess problem areas too).

If you're ever in the Columbus, OH area, I would happy to show you our Com-pac 19 and let you sail it.

Just to give you an idea how big they can be to trailer, here's a pic of our (very small in comparison) Compac 19. Imagine another 8 feet longer and several feet taller. Major pain in the but to trailer.

 

[zoommx5]

Speaking of brake controllers, has anyone installed one on a CX-9?

 

[romandesign]

Hi Roman-

First, I'm glad you're open minded about the first boat

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. All your points are valid. I will definitely consider all this when deciding on which boat to buy.

 

[BRIAN_MP5T]

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