To front sway bar or not to front sway bar.

[PassivAggressor]

I ordered lowering springs and front and rear sways from CS. I'm seeing quite a few people on here saying to not even bother with the front sway bar because your car won't rotate as much. What is everyone's thoughts on this? I may just try it for myself, but it's going to be a pain to have the front end apart for the springs anyway and not taking the chance to put my front sway bar in there.

 

[eyeballs]

I'd think a front swaybar would improve steering response and turn-in, but decrease available grip thus resulting in less oversteer at the limit but improved feel and flatter cornering. Let us know what you will be doing with the car as that can make a difference. What works best for auto-x usually differs from what will be best on track days and mountain runs. Also, what is the rest of your suspension setup?

Typically, for an auto-x FWD platform, a larger swaybar is not desireable. On the other hand, I will be doing few events but plan on adding f&r bars since I'd like to increase roll stiffness and steering response without beating up the passengers. Right now I like the idea of a CS front bar with an RB rear bar, as I think it'd give less understeer than the RB pair or CS pair. Nobody's tried it yet though AFAIK. FWIW Corksport reported less understeer with they added the front bar on their shop car.

 

[PassivAggressor]

Well right now I'm going to have H&R springs and the sways. I'll still be on stock tires and wheels haha. I live in Louisiana so there's no mountains. I wish. However I will be doing some spirited driving on some of the backroads and a couple (very few) auto x's. I like the sound of your setup, but money was a priority and I felt more comfortable with buying their "kit".

 

[cylent]

My understanding with a front swaybar on a FWD car = more understeer

I'll link another forum that has a better explanation on setting up the suspension on small FWD cars. Everything explained seems logical and was written by someone who consistently auto-x's.

http://www.microimageonline.com/forums/showthread.php/186-Micro-Car-Suspension-Setup-Guide

 

[PassivAggressor]

Hmm. A lot of things made sense on that forum. I'll just have to experiment.

 

[Phone]

Get a rear sway bar, keep the stock front. Enjoy your new found rotation.

 

[PassivAggressor]

Is that a good thing though? I understand wanting more rotation. However if I can reduce understeer and increase turn in reponse then I'm all for that.

 

[Phone]

Yeah, that's what "rotation" is.

 

[eyeballs]

Yeah, that's what "rotation" is.

Are you trying to say that "rotation" is the same as "turn-in response"? If so...then that is wrong. They are two entirely different things.

 

[njaremka]

for auto-x you WANT rotation. for street use, you really don't. for responsive steering, add a front bar. for increased balanced handling, add front and rear.

 

[Andy Hollis]

Sometimes a front bar gives more understeer, sometimes less.

If your car has so much body roll and so little front camber that the tires de-camber early in the turn, then more front bar will actually increase grip at that end of the car. Which pretty much describes a stock Mazda 2.

But if you also increase spring rates and lower the cg to decrease roll, alongside adding static front negative camber, then the front bar will push the relative roll resistance more towards understeer instead.

It all comes down to the whole package.

 

[eyeballs]

Thanks Andy. So would I be correct in saying, theoretically, that a more mild setup (ie racing beat springs, < 2 deg neg camber) would benefit more from a large FSB such as the racing beat bar, and a more aggressive setup (ie coilovers or H&R springs, > 2.5 deg neg camber) would be better off with the stock or corksport FSB?

 

[PassivAggressor]

Lots of responses. Thanks guys. Makes me feel better about my purchase.

 

[CRG Racer24]

My style of driving, personally, will not be suited to a front bar so I won't get one. My style of driving likes the car to have a lot of front end, and the rear end follows, or rotates, around the front... in simpler terms: Rotation. My suspension setup is more aggressive right now anyway, so again, front bar will not benefit my car.

In other words, listen to what Andy just said here. Proper suspension setup/balance/theory is very key.

 

[skullsroad]

I think if you're going to add a front bar you should at least have an adjustable rear bar and up your rear spring rate.

I plan on increasing my steering response without a front sway bar because I don't like to run really stiff springs in the rear of a lightweight FF. Makes the rear hop and is more prone to snap oversteer. Alignment, tires, and bushings that don't deflect under load will help a lot to increase that crispy feeling we all desire without having to change the whole suspension to counter-balance a large front sway.

 

[Andy Hollis]

Thanks Andy. So would I be correct in saying, theoretically, that a more mild setup (ie racing beat springs, < 2 deg neg camber) would benefit more from a large FSB such as the racing beat bar, and a more aggressive setup (ie coilovers or H&R springs, > 2.5 deg neg camber) would be better off with the stock or corksport FSB?

The better answer is to replace the bars in pairs regardless, unless you are into serious autocrossing. In that case, much stiffer rear springs and bar would be in order.

 

[eyeballs]

Either way I was planning on doing both bars. I am only planning on doing a few events per year for awhile...till the kids get a little older. Then its back to dedicated track car. In the meantime I want to the make the car as fun to drive as possible without punishing the passengers.

 

[CorkSport]

Our Mazda 2 was very neutral with both bars installed. You could tweak the handling with tires pressure changes easily while autocrossing.

-Derrick

 

[PassivAggressor]

Our Mazda 2 was very neutral with both bars installed. You could tweak the handling with tires pressure changes easily while autocrossing.

-Derrick

Well that solves it for me. Thank you sir!

 

[CRG Racer24]

"You may on occasion hear people talking about 'neutral', meaning 'neither understeer nor oversteer'. Such a beast does not exist; one end ALWAYS loses grip before the other. If the driver starts talking about 'neutral', he is likely underdriving the car to the point where there is plenty of reserve grip left at both ends.)"

Source: http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets7.html