Timing belt replacement

[Twin_Cam]

I need some advice. I'm a timing belt noob, I have only ever driven cars with timing chains that don't need replacing (silly me). My wife has a P5 that has 59,800 miles, so I figure it's time to replace the timing belt. The local shop that usually does good work for cheap wants $600-$800 parts and labor to do it. If I were to do it myself, how hard of a job is that, and how much of a headache is it going to be? What parts do I need to replace? The tensioner, idler, water pump, oil pump etc? I have a gravel driveway, no garage, no air tools, but I do have a good collection of hand tools and an electric impact wrench, and the wife has volunteered to lend a hand. She also doesn't work during the summer so the car can stay immobile for a couple days if needed. I looked at the service manual and on the surface it doesn't appear to be a difficult job, but I have this friend Murphy and he has this funny saying about things going wrong...

 

[pcb]

Here's just about everything you need to know.

My post at the end lists some shortcuts and advice.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123796676-How-To-Protege-Timing-Belt-Change

 

[pcb]

You might consider this kit,... it includes EVERYTHING and is a great price.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...s-USA-Timing-Belt-Kit-for-your-Mazda-Protege5

 

[tweety2300]

Our cars don't new to be done till 100k I did mine at 155k, although you could check it to make sure it's not cracked being 10 years old

It's not horribly hard to do, but the hardest part is getting the timing right when the new one goes on it took 3 of us about 20 minutes. You won't need to replace the oil pump but you do need to get a new valve cover gasket. Besides getting the timing right the only thing you might have trouble with is the motor mount bolts

 

[Brains]

we did ours at 160,000 but i wouldn't wait that long again-
-if you do the job yourself, be careful not to stretch out the tensioner spring too much when you put on the new one (or if you reuse the old one, assuming it's still good). I remember i sort of stretched it a bit too much for comfort, but it's been working fine for about 12,000 now so i assume it's alright. It's not hard to put the tensioner spring on, but it's something that i though was important to note eh?

Changing the timing belt's not too hard, we did it without me getting mad (somehow) and i don't seem to remember anything going wrong so you'll be fine.

 

[Twin_Cam]

Thanks for the quick responses. You guys waited until 100K+ miles? The owner's manual in the glovebox says 60K, so I figured that's when I'd do it. I guess I can remove the top cover and inspect the belt before I go tearing into the car and spending $230 on that kit, although that does look like a very good kit.

 

[pcb]

If you tie a string or wire to the spring and hook it up after the belt is on, it really helps prevent over stretching.

A new spring usually comes with the belt or kit. I ordered one extra just to make sure.

It's a three dollar part and is HUGELY important,... you really should order one with your belt to make sure.

 

[tweety2300]

I remember just being checked at 100 I know vws and Hondas go around 60-80k miles. But again it's rubber and 10 years old. Regardless of what's posted or said about it being non interference it can still bend a valve if it brakes

 

[CTt3P5]

Manual states to replace at 105K under normal driving conditions, think it's around 80K for extreme driving conditions. If you feel comfy enough to check it out though, it's probably a good idea given the age. What did the mechanic include in his quote? I got a quote of $850 a couple of years ago which inlcuded the belt, spring, vc gasket, tensioner, idler, water pump. It's the damn tensioner and idler that get ya pricewise.

I remember just being checked at 100 I know vws and Hondas go around 60-80k miles. But again it's rubber and 10 years old. Regardless of what's posted or said about it being non interference it can still bend a valve if it brakes

Ask me how I know.....(sadbanana) Replaced mine at 174K.....the hard way!

 

[pcb]

Manual states to replace at 105K under normal driving conditions, think it's around 80K for extreme driving conditions. If you feel comfy enough to check it out though, it's probably a good idea given the age. What did the mechanic include in his quote? I got a quote of $850 a couple of years ago which inlcuded the belt, spring, vc gasket, tensioner, idler, water pump. It's the damn tensioner and idler that get ya pricewise.



Ask me how I know.....(sadbanana) Replaced mine at 174K.....the hard way!

I was quoted over $1,600 for the job not including the water pump. The T-belt kit (tensioner, idler pulleys and T-belt) was $500 alone.

I did everything myself for around $300 in parts (no cam or crank seals though) and a few days in the driveway.


CTt3P5,... did you actually bend a valve or damage your engine ??? (I'm asking how you know.)

 

[CTt3P5]

I was quoted over $1,600 for the job not including the water pump. The T-belt kit (tensioner, idler pulleys and T-belt) was $500 alone.

I did everything myself for around $300 in parts (no cam or crank seals though) and a few days in the driveway.


CTt3P5,... did you actually bend a valve or damage your engine ??? (I'm asking how you know.)

Because Canadian for the price difference as well as them buying the parts at a mark-up? My quote was about 2-3yrs ago as well so I'm sure it'd be a bit more expensive today.

Check out my post from the 'what have you done' thread - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123616046-What-have-you-done-to-your-P5-today&p=6162595&viewfull=1#post6162595 It ended up being the timing belt and bent valves in cylinders 2 and 3. Seeing that another car payment just wasn't in the budget right now, I sourced a used engine with 68K miles and had it swapped in.

 

[pcb]

Well,... I guess that proves that the FS engine definitely is (or at least can be) an interference engine.

The debate is over,... for me anyway.

I don't feel so bad now doing my T-Belt just to find out it had already been done.

 

[CTt3P5]

Well, a lot are still saying that it is non-interference but possible for other factors that result in bent valves (I'm not the first one it's happened to). One is that at the higher mileage intervals while the engine is running at 2-3K rpms and the belt snaps, s*** is gonna happen.

I hear ya, I went ahead and had the mechanic replace the timing belt, tensioner, idler and water pump before they put it in.

 

[Installshield 2]

I agree with Tweety, and others...10 years is a long time on a rubber belt...it would at the very least check it for degradation, but by that point most of the tedious stuff is already out of the way...While some are saying they went over 100k before changing it, my tensioner failed at 80,000 miles and left the car stranded...even though the belt was perfectly fine (i had actually replaced the belt at about 30,000 when i installed some new cams)...

water pump replacement isn't a bad idea, since you'll be in there inside of the ridiculously annoying timing belt cover...but forget about the oil pump...with only 60,000 miles, assuming you're changing the oil when you should...the pump should be perfectly fine for normal use...

a helping hand is a huge help for retiming the engine with the new belt...there are lots of write-ups around here with tricks and advice like pcb mentioned...

figure, if you've never done it...its about a 6 hour job...a great way to break it up is just get the belt off over a friday evening with some beer haha, which is very doable...then start finishing the job saturday morning...if you run into small issues, parts stores are still open and you'll easily find misc hardware if need be...and its unlikely that you'll be annoyed and tired, and possibly really screw something up, than it would be if you attempt it in one shot...the toughest part by far is just getting to the timing belt...its very hard to get even regular sized hands in some of those areas...and the timing belt cover is two pieces, held on by like 10 different bolts that are all hidden in recesses...very annoying...re timing the engine will take multiple attempts, but with your wifes help holding things still...it should go smoothly...just triple check that its correct before you put everything back together...many of us have gotten all the way to starting the car only to find out it wasn't right...if you think it was fun doing it the first time...imagine starting it all over again instantly...

 

[pcb]

Knowing this trick can save you from huge aggravation. I spent more than 4 hours putting the belt on and off 8 times trying to get the damn teeth lined up.

Another really tricky part is getting the 4 little bolts off then back on the power steering pump pulley. Make sure you loosen them before you remove the drive belt.

I hope you've got skinny fingers,... maybe you can get your wife to do that part.

Another little trick I noticed is that there is timing marks on the back of the two camshaft pulleys and if you look from the drivers side,.. the top of the head lines up perfectly with the marks and it's easier to see if the marks are dead on.