Timing belt and water pump - DIY?

curls

Member
I'm looking to change my wifes' P5 timing belt and water pump. I'm fairly mechanically inclined and have patience... and I also have the service manual for the car.

Is this a difficult job? It will likely be just me in the garage, but I can get a friend to come over if required. Are there any special tools required for any of it? Also, I see you have to remove the side engine mount -- will some kind of support be required (a scissor jack?) while working on the car with the mount disconnected?

So far I've read that I should but and replace the tensioner spring ($3.63), the belt ($48) and the water pump (for good measure, $53). I've also picked up a new valve cover gasket ($26). Am I forgetting anything?

Will this be within my realm of DIY-ness? Does anyone know if a step-by-step with pictures exists? (Aside from the drawings in the service manual, it's always nice to have real pics to reference!).

Thanks a lot!
Eric
 
Good so far:
-tensioner spring
-timing belt
-water pump
-valve cover gasket

Would recommend:
-accessory belts (both)
-gasket for water pump
-RTV blue, because the gasket was not enough to seal the water pump
-all the rubber hoses
-thermostat

It is possible to DYI, but it will be slow going the first time to be sure you are doing it right. The key thing is having the right sockets and wrenches. The key thing that can hang you up is the crank bolt. You will need a very long extension, a big socket (forget what size, maybe 22mm) and you want to use a 1/2" socket/extension/breaker bar. You will also want a good torque wrench. I had to put the tire iron for the spare in a hole in the tranny and it keep the bolt from spinning. I got a electric impact wrench, but that didn't seem to work (cost alot more too).

If you use the DYI of the Underdrive pulley and Cam DYI you will have good instructions and pictures. Understand, it's very important to not lose any bolts and have good lighting.

This is a major undertaking, be prepared.
 
Hey magus.

Thanks for the advice. I have a good socket set and am planning to either use the half-handle from my jack as an extension to create a breaker bar, or, I will find a breaker bar this week. I've read on this site, and others, that the crank pulley bolt can be undone easily by turning the engine over with the starter (without starting). I've heard this works on most cars except Honda (they spin backwards).

I have two torque wrenches -- one big, one small... I should be set in that area. :)

I'll have a friend helping me it appears - he's willing to help and learn with me!

My parts supplier says the water pumps 99.99% of the time, come with gaskets, and he's never had one returned or had a complaint about a leaking gasket. I guess if the RTV blue isn't too pricey I might pick that up and use it regardless. Doesn't it need an hour to cure though, or will that time be spent putting everything back together before adding the coolant anyhow?

I was thinking about changing the accessory belts. I talked with a friend at Mazda parts counter and he says they rarely change either one (they go by look) but if anything, change the alternator belt for a total of $8.60.

Would the thermostat be on it way out at this mileage (135,000km / 84,000 miles)?

Thanks for your advice... looking forward to another reply. ;)
 
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Great timing (no pun intended)! I am having mine done this weekend and the shop I called was going to charge me to install my UDP. Now that I know the pulley has to come of to do the timing belt I going to get a new price.
 
Keep in mind that the specific eBay kit does not include the tensioner spring, which, for $3.50 or so, should definitely be replaced while you're there. Also, talking with my friend at the parts counter at a good Mazda dealer here, he said replacing the tensioner and/or the idler is very, very rare (and dealerships like to make money, so NOT replacing something is rare in itself!). If I were you, and what he said, is to stock the timing belt, water pump, and tensioner spring, (and drive/accessory belts if you want), and valve cover gasket. If, once you're in there, you find the tensioner is done then make a trip to the dealer to get one (assuming you have another vehicle to use... wifes', g/f, etc). Also ensure they have one in stock a day or two before you do the work.

This avoids the 25% restocking fee that most places charge!

Anyhow, just my $0.02.
 
Thanks for the help. I think I'll go ahead and get it. Good lookin out on the spring! I didn't notice it was not in the kit.
 
If you have patience, this can be DIY. Plan for the whole weekend, though (not that it will, but just plan). It will be easier to take off the passenger side motormount to bring the engine down. It's not necessary, but will help. There is a special tool to take the drive pulley off. It is definately a pain in the butt without it. Another real pain is the waterpump pulley. There are four bolts (10mm iirc) Loosening up three of the four is easy, but the fourth one (doesn't matter which one the fourth is) is a PITA. If you loosely put the third bolt back in, when you loosen the fourth, the kinetic energy transfers to the third so now the third bolt is too tight to get off. It's like a friggin 1920's comedy.

So, here you go:

1. Valve cover gasket - 9 bolts around the perimeter. 2 bolts (longer) in the middle. All are 10mm. Unplug the wire harnesses (2 of them) from the coil packs. There are two 10mm bolts per coil pack. The cylinder closest to the passenger side fender is Cylinder 1. Count to 4, so Cylinder 4 is the one closest to the driver side fender. Pull sparkplug wires 1 and 3 first, then pull the coil packs associated with them (1 & 4, and then 2 & 3). Pull the valve cover off. Pull out gasket. Place new gasket in. There are tiny "barbs" on the gasket that need to be pressed into the valve cover. You'll understand when you put it in. Also, it can only go in one way. Place valve cover upside down somewhere clean in the garage.

2. Powersteering/A.C. Belt - There is a bolt and a nut that need to be loosened before loosening the "tensioner" bolt on the powersteering. The bolt is the bolt at the very top of the powersteering that points from passenger side to driver side. It is the bolt that holds the power steering pump to the head. Do not remove it. Rather, loosen it up three or four turns. The nut is located under the powersteering pump and is pain to get to. It is the nut that "T's" against the "tensioner" bolt. Loosen it up two or three turns. Now, loosen the "tensioner" bolt until the belt can slip off. I wrote the alternator belt section first, so please read below for detailed explanation.

3. Alternator - There are two bolts that need to be loosened before you can turn the "tensioner" bolt. You need a 12mm and 14mm socket. The first bolt is underneath the intake manifold and it is in the alternator from the driver side of the car. It is at the bottom of the alternator. Do not take it out, just loosend it up three or four turns. The second bolt is actually the nut that holds the "tensioner" bolt in place. This nut "T's" with the "tensioner" bolt. Loosen it two or three turns. Now, loosen up the "tensioner" bolt. This is gonna take a good three, four minutes turning this bolt. Eventually, the atlernator belt will loosen enough to take the belt off.

4. Upper timing belt cover - There are four 10mm bolts at the four corners of the plastic timing cover. Facing the engine from the passenger fender, the top left bolt holds the dipstick in place. The bottom left just holds the timing cover. The top right and bottom right bolts hold a wireharness in place. The upper timing cover will just pop right out. It is a piece of plastic though, so be carefull.

5. Lower timing cover - This is another piece of plastic. IIRC, there are five 10mm bolts, but it could be only four again. Facing the engine from the passenger fender again, there is one bolt underneath the alternator bracket (top left corner), there is one underneath the motormount in the middle of the cover. I believe there is one more on the top right and then the bottom left and bottom right. DO NOT TRY TO REMOVE THE COVER. The underdrive pulley will prevent you from doing so.

6. Water pump pulley - Again these are just the four bolts. Pretty simple if you can get the last one off.

7. Underdrive pulley - You need to take off the passenger front wheel. I HIGHLY recommend putting the car up on jackstands, not just a jack. The wheelwell on the passenger side is notched right where the underdrive pulley bolt is, so you can fit the socket there without having to take off the side motormount. The pain is going to be putting tension somewhere else to hold the pulley in place while you take off the bolt. The special tool would work wonders. For the P5, you can put someone in the drivers seat and have them slam on the brakes while you try to loosen this bolt. I believe the bolt is a 21mm (it may be a 22mm). You will definately need a 1/2" breaker bar. I would also recommend getting a 9" X 1/2" extension, so the breaker bar will be outside of the wheelwell. Once you get enough impulse to initially loosen this bolt, it will hand turn out. The underdrive pulley will easily just pull right off. At this point you can remove the lower timing cover.

8. Timing belt - While your under the passenger wheelwell, there is a washer kind of thing covering the timing belt. You can remove that, just so you don't lose it. Again, facing the engine from the passenger fender, there are two brass looking pulleys guiding the timing belt. The one on the left is bolted to the block "off-center". There is a hex key hole in it. Take a hex key and turn this pulley clockwise. This will add tension to the timing belt. It will also bring the tensioner spring to more of a rest. At this point, unclip the tensioner spring. After you remove the tensioner spring, immediately turn the hex-key back counterclockwise so there is no tension in the timing belt. The timing belt will come right off.

9. Water pump - In order to remove the water pump, you need to remove the right side timing pulley. I believe it is a 14mm bolt. Then, there are five 14mm (iirc, maybe 12mm) bolts that hold the water pump in place. Oh, which reminds me, DRAIN THE RADIATOR FIRST! LOL. Otherwise you're gonna get wet. It just pops right off. Be careful though, when you place the new one on, bolt it down "relatively" tightly and turn the part that connects to the waterpump pulley. Listen carefully that there is no grinding noise coming from it. If it's good, tighten them down and turn again to listen for grinding. Put the timing pulley back on. Be sure to include the washer on it.

10. Timing the engine - At this point, with the underdrive pulley still off, put the bolt back into the crank. You will notice on the crankshaft that there is a small rectangular piece of metal that keeps the timing gear and underdrive pulley always in the "right place". If you look at the timing gear (sprocket, whatever), where this rectangular piece of metal (aka "key") is on the inside of the gear, directly on the outside of it, there is a notch on this timing gear. Make sure that it is at 12 O'clock (pointing straight up). If it is not, take the breaker bar and turn the bolt (that you put back on) until this notch is at 12 o'clock. Put the new timing belt in there (loosely). Facing the engine from the passenger fender, the intake cam is on the left and the exhaust cam is on the right. If you look between cylinders 1 and 2, there is a hex shape nut built into the cam. You need a 24mm wrench (a 15/16" will work as well). You need to rotate the intake cam until the cam gear has the "I" at 3 o'clock (again, looking at the engine from the passenger fender, there is an "I" and an "E" stamped on both cam gears). Then, you need to rotate the exhaust cam so the "E" is at 9 o'clock. If you look closely at the gears, there are tiny lines on both gears. These lines need to be EXACTLY lined up with each other right where the head is. These lines are on both "faces" of the gears. You can see them from the passenger fender view AND from the driver fender view. So, now you have the crank gear notch at 12 o'clock, the intake cam's "I" at 3 o'clock and the exhaust cam's "E" at 9 o'clock. They all imaginarily (if that's a word) intersect. Put the timing belt on so the protrusions from the belt exaclty fit the crank gear. Then, go counterclockwise to the exhaust cam and make sure they fit the notches on the exhuast cam gear. On to the intake cam gear. Make sure there is no "looseness" between the cam gears. And then bring the belt back down to the left side of the crank gear. At this point, take the hex key and rotate clockwise as hard as you can. Put the new tensioner spring in and release the hex key. Take the breaker bar and rotate the crankshaft two COMPLETE revolutions. Verify that all three timing points are still aligned. "I" is lined up with "E" which are perpendicular to the notch from the crank gear. If they are still lined up, put everything back together. If not, you must take the timing belt completely off and redo this entire step. At this point, take the breaker bar and do a quick burst counterclockwise against the bolt in the crank. Hopefully, the impulse will loosen the bolt right up without turning the crankshaft at all.

If you have any other questions, feel free to pm me or put it up on this post.
 
Good job icespeed.

Some more tips:

I can not remember if I waited for the RTV blue to set, it will say on the packaging. It's not that expensive.

Have a floor jack with a piece of wood on top, hold the motor under the oil pan before you remove the passenger motor mount.

Make sure you have deep well sockets to get the bolts off for the mount.

If you want a cool trick to remove the water pump pulley, use a channel lock wrench to hold on pulley. Be care not to mark up the pulley too much. So with one hand hold the pulley still, while loosing and remove the bolts. Not so 1920's comedy :D

I have automatic and just used the tire iron to keep the motor from turning over.

Some of the stuff I recommended, probably would be ok. You are already removing the belts, why not change them. With the thermostat and hoses, you already had to drain the coolant, why not change them. It will save extra hassle down the line. That and the parts should be cheap.
 
Icespeed and Magus - thanks again! I'll print this to bring to my garage on Sat. morning. :)

Icespeed -- you never mention removing the wheel liner in the wheel well. Is this required?

Also, I don't have a 9" extension, but I did pick up a 3 foot piece of 1" square-tube steel to use as a big breaker bar. I was planning to "bump" the crank pulley bolt loose with the help of the starter and a friend in the drivers' seat, with the 3' breaker bar on the ground to hold it still.

So the tools I have are:
- a well-stocked socket set with all sizes required (including deep sockets up to about 16mm)
- 1/2", 3/8", and 1/4" drive ratchets w/ lifetime warranty
- 3' piece of extension bar as a breaker bar
- brain
- friends' brain.
- good, new Michelin jack, jackstands
- patience
- service manual, and this thread.

Sound about right? I think the longest extension I have in the socket set is a 5 or 6" 1/2" drive, but I might be able to use my friends' socket set to get a second 5" extension... making a 10+" one.

I saw RTV gasket maker specifically made for water pumps. Should I get that? It was $5. Also I see I need silicone for the valve cover gasket (near the cam humps). Can I use regular household GE II silicone? Or the RTV water pump stuff? Or RTV Blue (and use RTV Blue for the water pump as well)?

Thanks again for all your help. I'm over-anal about getting a lot of this stuff into my head before opening the hood... and you've definitely been more than helpful!
 
Oh, and I also can get (rent for free) a pulley puller tool that has the split collar, etc...

Would this be useful in removing the crank pulley itself? I'm thinking I'll get it anyhow, and if I don't need it, fine, but if I do need it, it'll be just a few feet away instead of a 10 minute drive away.
 
I ended up doing the timing on my car when the engine was out, so I actually had two breaker bars, one on the underdrive pulley bolt and then my friend's son holding the breaker bar on the fly wheel side. I don't think you need a 3' breaker bar. Her son (13yrs) weighs, at most, 100 lbs.

You do have to remove the plastic undertray. They are all 10mm. If you have ABS, be careful as one of the undertray's bolts also mounts the abs line to the wheelwell. If no ABS, then no worries.

I didn't use any silicone for my waterpump, so I don't have anything to recommend.

I used the RTV Red for the valve cover, as I had it left over from when I assemlbed the shortblock. It doesn't really matter, as the temps up there are minimal compared to the other parts of the engine. Just be careful not to use too much. A quick dimple (maybe the size of a sugarcube) will suffice. Be carefull not to "stretch out" the silicone on the cams. Rather, squeeze the dimple and pull the tube away from the cam (all four times).

You can "daisy-chain" the extensions. It's just so the breakerbar will clear the wheel well. That gives you 360* turning capabilities.

I don't like the idea of turning it over with the breaker bar wedged between the ground, but if you really really want to, the best way would be to disconnect the coil pack wire harnesses so the engine doesn't "catch". A pulley tool would be your best bet. There is a picture of one on page 01-10b-10 of the '02 protege shop manual. Actually, to be honest, the entire section 01-10b is a very handy reference manual. It's only like 30 pages and worth printing up.

You will really really need a 24mm open wrench for the cams (or an adjustable grip/wrench that will extend to a 1" gap). In order to have the "I" and "E" exactly line up, you will need to apply a torque to the cams while a friend (or vice versa) puts the new timing belt on.

Oh, and the waterpump bolts (not the pulley bolts) snap very easily under too much torque, so be carefull! They give no warning before they go either... all you'll here is "snap".
 
Don't buy that GYB pump...In my experience with other cars and GYB..they are junk.

'Get an OEM one..it may cost more..but for the effort required to do the job..it may save you time and a headache shortly down the road.
 
Thanks for the heads up on that, am going on 80k so timing belt/spring/wp replacement is coming up on the maintenance horizon.
 
Don't buy that GYB pump...In my experience with other cars and GYB..they are junk.

'Get an OEM one..it may cost more..but for the effort required to do the job..it may save you time and a headache shortly down the road.

WTF is a GYB pump? All I know is my parts counter guy I've been going to for parts for 7+ years has never sold me a bad part, and wouldn't carry stuff that was junk -- parts are his livelihood and only source of income. He's a customer-first kinda guy.

Icespeed - why a 24mm wrench? Can the cam gears not be turned by a gloved-hand since they're large enough? Either way I have Imperial and Metric wrench sets that go at least that large. Thanks for the tip on the WP bolts. I have that section printed off from the manual and was planning to use my torque wrenches on everything possible, but I'll be double sure on those bolts. I take it you had a mishap with those ones at one point? (boom01)

(I can always cut the 3' bar down... better to have too much than not enough, right! LOL!)
 
Final question (for now, anyways)...

When I changed the coolant last time, I only was able to drain about 4L from the rad and resevoir combined. The capacity as per the service manual is about 6.5L. I am guessing that the other 2.5L that I didn't get out, was trapped in the block and lower rad hose? If so, when i drain the 4L from the rad and upper coolant system before doingt he water pump replacement, should I be expecting about 2.5L of coolant to come gushing out of the water pump hole the second I remove it from the block? Just want to be prepared. ;)
 
Opps, yeah expect coolant to come out of the water pump and/or thermostat/hoses.

You will need a bigger deep well socket to get the side motor mount nuts off, I believe it's a 17mm. Also you will need a big enough socket for the crankbolt itself, which I think was 22mm.

Hey, I did not think I needed RTV either and put the engine back together, put the coolant in, and it leaked! Talk about a pain in the butt!

You will need to move the plastic liner to gain access to the crank pulley and all the bolts to remove the engine covers.

I would also recommend some type of magnetic tray as not to loose nuts and bolts.

I think your turning point is going to be getting that crank bolt off. I am wary of cranking the engine with a breaker bar against the ground. It just sound dangerous. Maybe someone can mention whether the tire iron trick will work on manuals? I know it worked flawessly for me. Oh by the way, I did this completely by myself. If someone else there (with an extra car), will make it easier.
 
Opps, yeah expect coolant to come out of the water pump and/or thermostat/hoses.

You will need a bigger deep well socket to get the side motor mount nuts off, I believe it's a 17mm. Also you will need a big enough socket for the crankbolt itself, which I think was 22mm.

Hey, I did not think I needed RTV either and put the engine back together, put the coolant in, and it leaked! Talk about a pain in the butt!

You will need to move the plastic liner to gain access to the crank pulley and all the bolts to remove the engine covers.

I would also recommend some type of magnetic tray as not to loose nuts and bolts.

I think your turning point is going to be getting that crank bolt off. I am wary of cranking the engine with a breaker bar against the ground. It just sound dangerous. Maybe someone can mention whether the tire iron trick will work on manuals? I know it worked flawessly for me. Oh by the way, I did this completely by myself. If someone else there (with an extra car), will make it easier.

I'll double check the size of the deep sockets I have. I'm fairly sure the deep sockets are about 2.5" deep, or more. It's from a 250+ piece Mastercraft socket set... one of their best. I definitely have a 21mm and 22mm regular-depth socket for the crank pulley -- I often used the 21mm one for the lug nuts on this car as well.

By the way, it's an automatic -- my wifes' car. :) My car is a 6-speed 2004 TSX. She can't drive it (for two reasons: it's a standard, and, it's MY standard!). ;)
 

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