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my3needsaname
Sorry, this whole stupid thing is just really annoying and now the car's going out of commission for a couple days which is fine as long as they find something.
Thanks for your input and I'll keep that in mind when I tell them about it. Just for reference, what's that the abbreviation for?
edit: I'm just wondering where did you pick up on somebody saying it was the injectors? or did I say that in the OP?
Thanks for your input and I'll keep that in mind when I tell them about it. Just for reference, what's that the abbreviation for?
edit: I'm just wondering where did you pick up on somebody saying it was the injectors? or did I say that in the OP?
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my3needsaname
Well the car's in the service department right now, I'll know if they find something tomorrow morning sometime. Doubt they find anything but hey, at least I'm driving something fun with a V8 right now!
If it's WAY loud, (like mine is right now) it may be the shutter/runner valve in the intake manifold...which, from googling around, seems to be fairly common. Also, my friend and I took a mechanic's stethoscope to my engine and the noise was definitely coming from the intake manifold.
i found this video which is exactly what mine does right now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8qSw4dxII
as you can see in the video, disconnecting the vacuum line/signal cable to that valve mitigates the noise issue. according to this mazda TSB sadly requires a full IM replacement: http://www.mazda3club.com/showpost.php?p=363453&postcount=6
why the phuck a valve that fails so often is MOLDED INTO THE MANIFOLD is beyond me, but the full job will run you $500 for the manifold and $300 for labor. I'm wondering what side-effects just leaving that cable/line unhooked will have on the fuel-to-air ratio that the ECU computes, if anyone knows the answer to this, i'd rather not have to spend $800.
thanks,
Leon
i found this video which is exactly what mine does right now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8qSw4dxII
as you can see in the video, disconnecting the vacuum line/signal cable to that valve mitigates the noise issue. according to this mazda TSB sadly requires a full IM replacement: http://www.mazda3club.com/showpost.php?p=363453&postcount=6
why the phuck a valve that fails so often is MOLDED INTO THE MANIFOLD is beyond me, but the full job will run you $500 for the manifold and $300 for labor. I'm wondering what side-effects just leaving that cable/line unhooked will have on the fuel-to-air ratio that the ECU computes, if anyone knows the answer to this, i'd rather not have to spend $800.
thanks,
Leon
if there is enough of you then a threat of a class-action lawsuit may make them think to do a quiet recall or something involving them fixing it for free
Intake tumble control valves are under a tremendous amount of vibrational pressure, thats why they fail... apparently automakers have been trying to make more durable tumble flaps since they came out. The molded plastic composite shutters were actually designed to be more durable than the metal ones in which screws would be worked loose and sucked into the engine.
If you unplug the vacuum line from the solenoid, I'm not sure if the flaps will stick open or closed. If it's closed, then you wont be able to make much HP over 3000rpm. If the default is open (which would seem like a wiser engineering choice), then you may have cold running issues below 3000rpm. A popular modification is to remove the valves for performance, thats called the VTCS removal mod. You could try doing that too.... unplugging the electrical to the VTCS solenoid may cause a check engine light, but would solve your problem (combined with the VTCS removal mod)
Well i did what the video showed and my car is now very quiet. I will be taking it in tomorrow to get it checked out. I looked at the Mazda6 Workshop manual and it just shows how to diagnose the issue and that it does in fact require a manifold replacement if it's the valve.
However, i recently found a couple of things. First indicating the intake manifold can be covered up to 100K or 5yrs. but the source is a Toronto messageboard, so if it's 100K km, that doesn't help me, if it's miles then it would. Plus often the terms are very different country to country.
http://www.torontomazda3.com/forum/showthread.php?p=354307
i havent been able to find much on what it's actually needed for, but everything that comes close points to emission control. this one is in reference to a mazda diesel engine, but i'm sure the application is the same:
"When the engine is idling the intake shutter valve restricts air intake volume to reduce cylinder pressure by about 25 per cent and suppresses idle knock, while the low compression ratio limits engine speed fluctuations and significantly lowers vibration."
..i also just called the service dept and the guy said it could lead to carbon deposits and such if it was stuck in one position.
...which would mean: bad, expensive things. we'll see what they say tomorrow.
However, i recently found a couple of things. First indicating the intake manifold can be covered up to 100K or 5yrs. but the source is a Toronto messageboard, so if it's 100K km, that doesn't help me, if it's miles then it would. Plus often the terms are very different country to country.
http://www.torontomazda3.com/forum/showthread.php?p=354307
i havent been able to find much on what it's actually needed for, but everything that comes close points to emission control. this one is in reference to a mazda diesel engine, but i'm sure the application is the same:
"When the engine is idling the intake shutter valve restricts air intake volume to reduce cylinder pressure by about 25 per cent and suppresses idle knock, while the low compression ratio limits engine speed fluctuations and significantly lowers vibration."
..i also just called the service dept and the guy said it could lead to carbon deposits and such if it was stuck in one position.
...which would mean: bad, expensive things. we'll see what they say tomorrow.
M
my3needsaname
Yea forget that! Once I do that it's bye bye engine warranty and that's not anything I want gone. Especially with the way this thing makes problems for itself.
The service department said it was normal...from the looks of the pics all you need to do is put in like some foam and it should stop that hott plastic on plastic ticking noise action.
I talked to the service manager and he's going to head out with me to listen for all the s*** my car does. 7 problems! Hopefully they can actually fix them...that would just be wonderful. But he said he can't re-design the intake manifold so the ticking will never go away...god it's such an embarrassment, you have such a well kept car but when you start it the damn engine ticks like hell. I really want to sell it to get that truck.
The service department said it was normal...from the looks of the pics all you need to do is put in like some foam and it should stop that hott plastic on plastic ticking noise action.
I talked to the service manager and he's going to head out with me to listen for all the s*** my car does. 7 problems! Hopefully they can actually fix them...that would just be wonderful. But he said he can't re-design the intake manifold so the ticking will never go away...god it's such an embarrassment, you have such a well kept car but when you start it the damn engine ticks like hell. I really want to sell it to get that truck.
oh it's normal now? if so then why arent hundreds of thousands more Mazda 3's, Mazda 6's and %'s doing this?
Well the results are in, i also had a chat with the Mazda master mechanic who looked at it.
Right after the inspection i noticed it was much quieter, so i asked him if it was just me or if he did something to it. He said all he did was manually open and closed the valve to make sure that's what it was. Sure enough my suspicions were correct. He assured me that the noise would come back, and after driving 5 miles, it is almost back in full force.
I asked him about the VTCS mod and how it could affect the ECU's FAE calculations and he said he wasnt sure how it would behave and if there could be any damage caused by this. Just saying that it could cause more fuel consumption at start/idle because the valve also reduces the speed of the airflow going into the engine. Mentioning that if the ECU could not adjust enough for the effects, a lean burn would cause and carbon buildup on the cylinders/(pistons?).
He said the valve is always partially open and opens wider with RPM/speed? and that unhooking the solenoid (what i did) there's no way of telling what position it would be in (as techspeak mentioned)...and he also said the the CEL would go on eventually after enough cycles (mine had not when i unplugged it)
He didn't say anything that implied it's something that needed to be fixed, the same situation will come back anyhow, in time. so is it a problem? not really, no. it is very annoying though, and very expensive and pointless to repair. it seems the biggest risk to the VTCS mod is running a bit richer @ idle. That and causing damage while doing the mod itself. So i think i might go for it.
hope that helps,
Leon
Right after the inspection i noticed it was much quieter, so i asked him if it was just me or if he did something to it. He said all he did was manually open and closed the valve to make sure that's what it was. Sure enough my suspicions were correct. He assured me that the noise would come back, and after driving 5 miles, it is almost back in full force.
I asked him about the VTCS mod and how it could affect the ECU's FAE calculations and he said he wasnt sure how it would behave and if there could be any damage caused by this. Just saying that it could cause more fuel consumption at start/idle because the valve also reduces the speed of the airflow going into the engine. Mentioning that if the ECU could not adjust enough for the effects, a lean burn would cause and carbon buildup on the cylinders/(pistons?).
He said the valve is always partially open and opens wider with RPM/speed? and that unhooking the solenoid (what i did) there's no way of telling what position it would be in (as techspeak mentioned)...and he also said the the CEL would go on eventually after enough cycles (mine had not when i unplugged it)
He didn't say anything that implied it's something that needed to be fixed, the same situation will come back anyhow, in time. so is it a problem? not really, no. it is very annoying though, and very expensive and pointless to repair. it seems the biggest risk to the VTCS mod is running a bit richer @ idle. That and causing damage while doing the mod itself. So i think i might go for it.
hope that helps,
Leon
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my3needsaname
I think they heard the timing belt ticking and not what I was referring to. They started it up after sitting all night and I also said to warm it fully and then let it cool for 2-3 hours and start it again, this would make it much louder. Doubt they did it but I'm bringing it back tomorrow for the service manager to have a look see at all my problems with it.
Leeoniya, I got mine done under warranty.
jp. I don't think that mod is worth it because no matter how annoying or embarrassing it is, that sounds like it would do more bad than good in the long run.
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my3needsaname
Just to give you guys a taste on why I want to sell it...here's a couple things I'm bringing it back for tomorrow...
Things I expect them to replace under warranty:
front shocks
cowl clips
something in the headliner that holds it up over the driver's side door frame
things I expect them to give me answers to:
why my front shocks are creaking in the first place
why my brakes flaked out on me last friday
why my rear wheels have a burning smell coming from them after I drive sometimes
why my headliner rattles above my head
why my intake ticks like it does (although checked, $50 says they didn't hear the right thing)
other misc things...
I've got 6 "things" I want them to fix...I expect them to fix my shocks creaking. That's about it. If I make a big stink about it they might even hook me up with MS coil overs if I have like the best luck in the world but that's what? 1 in a billion chance.
Things I expect them to replace under warranty:
front shocks
cowl clips
something in the headliner that holds it up over the driver's side door frame
things I expect them to give me answers to:
why my front shocks are creaking in the first place
why my brakes flaked out on me last friday
why my rear wheels have a burning smell coming from them after I drive sometimes
why my headliner rattles above my head
why my intake ticks like it does (although checked, $50 says they didn't hear the right thing)
other misc things...
I've got 6 "things" I want them to fix...I expect them to fix my shocks creaking. That's about it. If I make a big stink about it they might even hook me up with MS coil overs if I have like the best luck in the world but that's what? 1 in a billion chance.
