thepope540's KLDE swap / build thread

Valk said:
Because 10.5-1 compression and boost can be pretty unfriendly.
You could probably get a thicker head gasket or something though to make it more friendly. or maybe hold off on the boost till you get it all running comfortably, and swap the lower end for forged equipment.
since you have ze heads, the rest of the motor is incidental ;)

there are lots of people who are running under 8 psi on the ze. just need a good tune on your ms. of course 8 psi on a ze is probably all you will ever need/want on fwd.
Click to expand...

only 8psi wow thats it???? how much hp would that give you??? is there another kl motor that could get a snail on ????(boom07)
 
The DE will take quite a bit of boost because it has much lower compression. I've seen 8psi on a ZE break into the 12s so its no slouch, it just won't take much boost. My realistic, safe goal is around 250 whp @ 6ish psi.
 
You could just change out to shorter rods or lower comp pistons on your ZE. KL's are forged from the factory and can take a lot of abuse. im confident you will break your transmission before you have a boost related engine problem on a properly tuned KL.

6psi will get you higher than 250 hp as proven on the probe and mx6 forums. id expect closer to 280 with a good intake/intercooler and exhaust =).

what happens with VRIS under boost? can MS control it?

pretty tempted to work on my wifes K8. i know a lot of people prefer to just swap out to the 2.5 L but the cheapest one i can find with 289k is like... $750 cdn.. id still have to machine and rebuild that motor =\ all hers needs is a set of valve stem seals and a good tune up.

No one seems to do any mods to them though.
 
Valk said:
You could just change out to shorter rods or lower comp pistons on your ZE. KL's are forged from the factory and can take a lot of abuse. im confident you will break your transmission before you have a boost related engine problem on a properly tuned KL.

6psi will get you higher than 250 hp as proven on the probe and mx6 forums. id expect closer to 280 with a good intake/intercooler and exhaust =).

what happens with VRIS under boost? can MS control it?

pretty tempted to work on my wifes K8. i know a lot of people prefer to just swap out to the 2.5 L but the cheapest one i can find with 289k is like... $750 cdn.. id still have to machine and rebuild that motor =\ all hers needs is a set of valve stem seals and a good tune up.

No one seems to do any mods to them though.
Click to expand...

The rods are weak, but I'm in search of some cheap millenia S rods and pistons - the rods are said to be about 40% stronger than DE or ZE and are the weak link in the motor. The pistons would just be lower compression.

I've seen the same numbers on PT and MX6, but I'd like 250 and anything beyond that will be icing on the cake.

MS will control VRIS, but I'm not going to run it for long. I'm building a custom intake manifold this summer.

You can pick up a complete KLZE drop out on ebay for $600-700. I don't know if you would have to do anything special for Canada though. If you do swap save the K8 flywheel and use it in the 2.5L its 5 or 6 lbs lighter. I have one that will be installed when I put in the clutch and diff.
 
What i wanna know is if the kl is a direct swap for a k8. To drop a klze you need all this extra s***. If i drop a klde though will it need additional hardware/elextronics?

Guess there is no reason i couldnt usr all the k8 sensors and stuff. All im changing is he displacement sindethe k8/klde are the same motor more or less. Different bore/stroke though.
 
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thepope540 said:
The rods are weak, but I'm in search of some cheap millenia S rods and pistons - the rods are said to be about 40% stronger than DE or ZE and are the weak link in the motor. The pistons would just be lower compression.
Click to expand...

Pistons wont work they are too small for the cyl bore, you need special pistons for those rods, best to check with wiesco.


remember, the millenia was a 2.3, not a 2.5.


I also would make a recomendation that you remove the VRIS entirely, as its only blocking pressure from here on in.



Im curious about your engine, now that you had the intake off, did you notice the differance in the porting between the head and the IM?
Also You might want to pull your front valve cover and ID the cams, If they are KL31 I would highly reccomend finding a set of DE heads. The DE cams dont have as long of a duration, and the retainers are much stronger.

ZE head castings, intake manifold and DE head guts are the best oem combination for FI.

Oh, and one more tip. Ask your local Mazda dealer if they can order the updated cam spring washers and nuts. There is a TSB that a tech can look up for part numbers.
The updated part takes what sounds like HLA tap right out of it.
They are basicaly a better lash adjuster for the cam gears where they mesh together.
 
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Thanks for the info. That should have read I'm looking for millenia S rods and aftermarket pistons - I realize that the millenia piston won't work. I'm going to pull the valve cover and check out the cams. I'd ultimately like to find out what my motor is. I don't want to destroy it with boost because it has some weird mix of parts. My long term engine goal is pretty much what you've already laid out:

millenia rods
wisco or similar pistons
KL31 heads and cams
custom intake mani (this is mostly because I think it will be a fun project)
Phenolic spacers
I'll have to find part numbers on the cam spring washers and nuts so I can order them through MM

Its strange that the PO didn't mention the KL31 heads or complete ZE swap (whichever it might be) It has a DE manifold with no porting or work done at all bolted ZE heads. For now I just want to get the thing back on the road. I'll get this stuff sorted in the future.
 
so i started tearing into my engine and found it is a klze. it has been bugging me not knowing what it was. so that means i paid $225 plus tolls and gas which total equaled almost $300 for a klze and tranny. thank you craigslist
 
I'm thinking something in the middle. Low and tight like the CZT, but made from a box on top of the runners like Dan's. Its on the to do list, but its at the bottom.
 
man, your making this sound too easy... just get the ms, get the wiring info from you and throw it in right.... damn i want to do this!
 
well he got a good deal on a pre-built ms which was basicly plug and play for his application. to build your own is a little more indepth ;)
hopeing he will post a how to though.
 
:) I haven't decided what to do with the how to. What I did only applies to the '93-94 MX6 wiring and MSP wiring so its very specific and I don't know how helpful it would be for most people. It definitely hasn't been simple, each step of the way I find a new problem that needs a creative solution. An example is power steering - I didn't want to run a 4 ft hose when 22" would work so I removed the stock line and set out to make a new one. You cannot get metric inverted flare fittings and large metric banjos so it took weeks to come up with a solution. Now that I have it, I have a very well routed simple and leak free system, but there was a lot of head scratching and running around town to do it. How that I've done it though I could have a perfect power steering system in a couple hours instead of a couple weeks. The intercooler is another problem. I figured out how to make probe intercooler piping fit in the car, but it won't work with the MX6 radiator. So I bought a P5 radiator and slim fans to accommodate the piping. This is a nightmare for coolant hoses, so now I'm removing the huge FMIC and running an air to water system and I'm back to the mx6 radiator. But that has all of its one problems... When I'm done I feel like I'll have a fairly well sorted car, but it hasn't been as simple as it may sound. I could probably do it over in a weekend though. This has been a learning process, the problem is that I'll never do it again so the knowledge won't be that helpful in the future.
 
thepope540 said:
:) I haven't decided what to do with the how to. What I did only applies to the '93-94 MX6 wiring and MSP wiring so its very specific and I don't know how helpful it would be for most people. It definitely hasn't been simple, each step of the way I find a new problem that needs a creative solution. An example is power steering - I didn't want to run a 4 ft hose when 22" would work so I removed the stock line and set out to make a new one. You cannot get metric inverted flare fittings and large metric banjos so it took weeks to come up with a solution. Now that I have it, I have a very well routed simple and leak free system, but there was a lot of head scratching and running around town to do it. How that I've done it though I could have a perfect power steering system in a couple hours instead of a couple weeks. The intercooler is another problem. I figured out how to make probe intercooler piping fit in the car, but it won't work with the MX6 radiator. So I bought a P5 radiator and slim fans to accommodate the piping. This is a nightmare for coolant hoses, so now I'm removing the huge FMIC and running an air to water system and I'm back to the mx6 radiator. But that has all of its one problems... When I'm done I feel like I'll have a fairly well sorted car, but it hasn't been as simple as it may sound. I could probably do it over in a weekend though. This has been a learning process, the problem is that I'll never do it again so the knowledge won't be that helpful in the future.
Click to expand...



you have any pics of everything right now? seen the stuff on page one but just want to see where your at now! and you can do this again ill bring my p5 down there and you can help me lol
 
klze valve stem height

Im in the middle of an engine rebuild and can't find the valve stem height. Everything I find seems to fit the klde nut not my klze..... does anyone have the valve stem height for a klze ..... thanks
 
Got a lot done today - I'm finally in the home stretch. I know the engine is filthy and the wiring still needs cleaned up...
 

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