Synth. Blend? First oil change

[jc55]

Took my car into the dealership this morning for an oil change. 3300 miles, first change was free, figured I'd get it out of the way.

From everything I've read, the car comes from the factory w/ Synthetic. Correct? Well, the service manager hands me the invoice back and it says 5w-20 Synthetic Blend. Also, the sticker on the car also says 5w20 Synthetic Blend. I asked him about it, and he said it was just a mistake that he assured me it was full synthetic. I'm not buying it... Should I escalate this to management? What recourse do I have? Will it harm the motor?

I guess sometimes if you want to do something right, you do it yourself.

 

[ceric]

"the sticker on the car also says 5w20..."
Where?
I can't find any on my 2008.

In mine, dyno oil came with the car. I have been changing oil at the dealerships.
They charged me around $30. I don't think they use any blend of synthetic oil.... for $30 including car washes.

 

[Veilside1]

not sure where you've heard about a full syn being the factory fill...

the only requirements listed in my manual are a viscosity and API service rating (5W-20, SM)

the 2012 is no different.

 

[shodanusmc]

My 2012 came with Dino....cost around $24 for a blended oil. I pay around $65 for full synthetic.

 

[Alfissimoint.]

Doubt it comes with synthetic.

5W-20 full synthetic is good, I used 5W-30 full synthetic, either Pentosin High Performance 5W-30 or Motul Not going to harm the motor with semi. Just change it around 3500 miles and go full synthetic, then change interval to 10K miles. NO NEED to do 3K mile oil changes with synthetic. Yes, and do it yourself. Forget the dealer.

 

[HOLOHOLO]

Supposedly, Mazda uses Castrol products and has a "strategic alliance" with them. Options in the service departments should include Castrol GTX oil change and a $10 rebate on a Castrol SYNTEC blend. If your local dealer abides by this is a matter of debate, but using these products in your car should keep the warranty folks happy.

 

[Alfissimoint.]

Castrol Sucks. If you want good oil, you need to get it yourself. Motul(FR), Pentosin(DE), Lubro-Moly(DE), Elf(FR), Titan Fuchs(DE,UK), AGIP(IT,USA) come to mind as the best around. All European but available here in the US.

 

[blackntan]

Castrol Sucks.

I assume this statement doesn't apply to the Castrol Syntec 0w-30 Class IV true synthetic oil that is made in Germany, right? A lot of high dollar cars are running that, as well as some high performance machines, and a lot of guys swear by it. The bonus is that you can pick the stuff up for about $6 per quart when it is on sale, which in my experience, is 1/2 the cost of Amsoil Signature Series. I don't know anything about those other oils you posted about, but I would guess they are pretty expensive. So, for about $35 worth of oil, and a few bucks for an OEM filter, your under $40 for an oil change, using some top shelf synthetic oil, that will easily last 10k miles or better. (YMMV)

We only have about 1k miles on the GC in our CX-9, and so far I'm happy with it. Switched from Amsoil SS 5w-20 (also a true synthetic), which did well. I'm also running the GC in my supercharged Tundra. I also switched from Amsoil SS 5w-20 in my truck. Once I get some miles on the oil, in both vehicles, I'll get an oil analysis done to see how it compares to the Amsoil SS 5w-20 I was running. Based on everything I've read, I'm expecting some good results with this GC 0w-30.

 

[Installshield 2]

I'm not a CX-9 owner...but are you guys really that worried about the oil type on a basically brand new engine?

I'm not trying to start the big debate...we've all read the forums and 'oil guy' posts over the years...and it is true that the chemistry of engine oil is, in some ways, very misleading through marketing...

But its going to take 10 to 15 years from now before ANY of this would apply to your own applications...honestly, by buying extreme quality oil for a non-extreme/racing application, you're doing more of a favor for future owners of your car than you are yourself...very kind of you, but i think the arm-chair chemist's saying 'castrol sucks', or 'brand X' is better...is completely irrelevant...

the simple truth is there is only 2 factors that really matter for a daily driver...how good of a filter you use, and how often you change it with the oil...The best oil on the planet can be trashed in 1500 miles by using a crappy filter...dirt cheap dino can easily last 3000 + miles with a high quality filter...The oil itself is so influenced by the filter quality, its really all it comes down to.

There is absolutely NO credible proof against what oil truly is 'better' overall. 10 years ago Mobil 1 was it...Pictures everywhere of Honda and Mazda engines, after being ripped on for 200,000 miles...being taken apart, and having cylinder cross-hatch patterns still visible...having valve clearances still with in factory specs, etc...but then some research showed that mobil 1 is not 'truly synthetic'...and all of a sudden a bunch of people on internet forums start saying it'll kill your engine?

so personally...i'd simply not worry about it too much...the only thing to consider is be sure of the brand and quality of your filter...use nearly ANY name brand synthetic, synthetic blend, or even dino oil you feel like...and adjust your oil change patterns around it...if you buy expensive oil and filters, you're probably safe for 7500 to 10,000 miles (i know many advertise the 15,000 mile change...f that, i'd never use ANY filter that long)...if you buy blends, you're safe to around 5000 to 7500...if you buy dino...safe to 3,000 to 5,000...

if you follow a schedule like that, i almost 100% guarantee none of you will ever see any difference in engine tolerances through your ownership...a future owner, or if you keep your car for 10+ years and very high miles...current decisions will be the difference between an overhaul at 175,000, 200,000 or 225,000...but almost nobody keeps a single car that long anymore, anyway...

 

[blackntan]

I agree with just about everything you've said...except the part about the oil filter.

On my Toyota truck, I put 5k miles on some Mobil 1 5w-20 with a $20 Mobil 1 oil filter (yeah, I was a sucker) (bang).

For my next oil change, I put 5k miles on some Amsoil SS 5w-20, and used an OEM oil filter that cost me $4.50.

I took oil samples of both oils and had them analyzed. The Amsoil sample had less wear metals present than the Mobil 1 did. Sure, the different oils could have played a role, but by using a $4.50 OEM oil filter on the 2nd oil, I didn't see any bad results. So now I have a box full of OEM Mazda filters, and OEM Toyota filters. I think I paid around $3-4 or so each for the mazda filters, and $4.50 each for the Toyota ones. I will never again be suckered into buying expensive "better" oil filters. I'm sure we've all spent time reading and reading about the oil filter debates. At the end of the day, I just believe that the OME filters are as good as, if not better than some of the more expensive oil filters.

I have followed a couple guys who are doing 15k-20k oil change intervals (true synthetic oil) What they are doing is changing the oil filter at the halfway point, filling back up with fresh oil...no problems so far.

The CX-9 will barely have 80k miles on it when it is 10 years old, so I'm not worried about an engine rebuild any time soon, if ever. Since I'm not allowed to mod the damn thing, I chose something as stupid as oil and filter selection, and oil change frequency to be my only "project" for that car..lol. Lame...I know.

 

[Installshield 2]

I agree with just about everything you've said...except the part about the oil filter.

On my Toyota truck, I put 5k miles on some Mobil 1 5w-20 with a $20 Mobil 1 oil filter (yeah, I was a sucker) (bang).

For my next oil change, I put 5k miles on some Amsoil SS 5w-20, and used an OEM oil filter that cost me $4.50.

I took oil samples of both oils and had them analyzed. The Amsoil sample had less wear metals present than the Mobil 1 did. Sure, the different oils could have played a role, but by using a $4.50 OEM oil filter on the 2nd oil, I didn't see any bad results. So now I have a box full of OEM Mazda filters, and OEM Toyota filters. I think I paid around $3-4 or so each for the mazda filters, and $4.50 each for the Toyota ones. I will never again be suckered into buying expensive "better" oil filters. I'm sure we've all spent time reading and reading about the oil filter debates. At the end of the day, I just believe that the OME filters are as good as, if not better than some of the more expensive oil filters.

I have followed a couple guys who are doing 15k-20k oil change intervals (true synthetic oil) What they are doing is changing the oil filter at the halfway point, filling back up with fresh oil...no problems so far.

The CX-9 will barely have 80k miles on it when it is 10 years old, so I'm not worried about an engine rebuild any time soon, if ever. Since I'm not allowed to mod the damn thing, I chose something as stupid as oil and filter selection, and oil change frequency to be my only "project" for that car..lol. Lame...I know.

No thats great man, and i totally agree...you can run insanely long on great oil, but changing the oil filter is a great idea...

I should've specified...I didn't mean 'brand' as much when attached to the filter...OE filters are 95% of the time the absolute best available for the car and its oiling system...its just in some cases, you'll run into prices being all over the place...in your case, a OE fliter is a very cheap compared to even cheap parts store filters...in my case, the OE fliters from a dealership are a little more than top branded filters available at stores...Around $14 for an OE KL V6 filter, and $9.99 for the same Mobil 1 filter...

the thing with filters is that you should try and look into what company is supplying the elements...most oil manufacturers DO NOT use their own, they source it to a number of suppliers that make 'internals' for pretty much every brand...I don't have it all in front of me, but for my p5, Mobil 1 and the OE filters use the EXACT same element internally...from a supplier in Austria, but i can't remember the company name off hand...these suppliers may also use the same element across multiple aftermarket brands...for example for a while US available Bosch filters were actually using paper elements from Fram, but proper European Bosch filters were totally different...again, its been a long time since i've read all this, but it was something like that.

so with my specific engine...Mobil 1 filters and OE filters are for the most part identical...but this is an engine by engine basis, not all Mazda OE filters use the same supplier (especially when factoring in had Ford had their hands in there for a number of years, too)...I've bounced back and forth in my case, used mobil 1 filters if i'm in a hurry...or buy 3 from a dealership (which used to get me one free, but they stopped doing that)...not sure who supplies filters for Toyota, but i'm sure its a similar situation...

for nearly 160,000 miles i've used 5w and 10w 30 from Mobil 1 since i bought my p5 new in 2002...I have only settled on that brand because i've witnessed its ability first hand, and its 'readily' available in my area...I would consider switching if it didn't involve a bulk online order or something...but i change it like clock work every 6,000 miles...burn less than a quart between changes, which is pretty amazing considering the miles...hasn't leaked a drop once, either...so i've been happy.

 

[HOLOHOLO]

Good post, shield.

The fact is, Mazda is warrantying my car for the next 7 years - so I'm putting in what they want. Aside from that, I've never had an issue with GTX or syntec running in our warm environment, and I usually switch to synthetic when the car is a couple years old.

If the local service manager wants to sign off on another brand, I may go with that, but I'm not chasing down exotic imports/racing brands and explaining to the Mazda dealer that their preference "sucks" cuz I read it on the internet.

 

[HOLOHOLO]

Speaking of Oil changes and Mazda service. My 2012 CX-9 had it's first birthday today (birthday) and I took it into the dealer -Cutter Mazda of Honolulu for synthetic lube and a wash/wax. (2nd oil change but the first time in their shop).

I was expecting a good coupon deal, but what I got was:
FREE oil change "plus" service,
FREE full circle inspections,
FREE wax job/detailing and
FREE door to door shuttle service to and from work!

They said the 1st service is on them. OUTSTANDING. A nice surprise.

I guess I paid too much for the car,.. ;-)

 

[Gnicetry]

I'm not a CX-9 owner...but are you guys really that worried about the oil type on a basically brand new engine?................................... car that long anymore, anyw...

Would have to agree with that post. I just wouldn't put a SuperTech or real cheapy oil in any of my cars. It probably is the same but I still wouldn't trust it. Some oils do have (tiny amounts of) additives that can help your car. There are tests that have been conducted that show that some oils have minimal less wear than others. And those tests are always on extreme racing engines.
But putting an extreme performance oil in a non-extreme performance engine is a waste of money in my opinion.
I put in Mobil 1 5W-20 every 5K miles and use a higher end Fram/Purolater filter. Changing the oil/filter consistently will yield better results than putting in a great oil/filter and neglecting it. And putting in a great oil/filter will not yield any better results than a consistently good oil/filter. Unless you are rally racing your CX-9(cool)

 

[Gnicetry]

On my Toyota truck, I put 5k miles on some Mobil 1 5w-20 with a $20 Mobil 1 oil filter (yeah, I was a sucker) (bang).

For my next oil change, I put 5k miles on some Amsoil SS 5w-20, and used an OEM oil filter that cost me $4.50.

I took oil samples of both oils and had them analyzed. The Amsoil sample had less wear metals present than the Mobil 1 did. Sure, the different oils could have played a role, but by using a $4.50 OEM oil filter on the 2nd oil, I didn't see any bad results.

I think to be really fair you would need to just change the filters and use the same oil. Changing the oil along with the filter means 2 changing variables and that Amsoil is among the best quality oil(drinks)

 

[blackntan]

I think to be really fair you would need to just change the filters and use the same oil. Changing the oil along with the filter means 2 changing variables and that Amsoil is among the best quality oil(drinks)

I agree, and you are absolutely correct. It's just that I started reading up on oil filters after I put that Mobil 1 filter in, and realized I was duped. Most of what I read pretty much said that OEM filters are as good as, if not better than some of the other store bought "higher quality/priced" filters.

At any rate, yes, the Amsoil did a little better than the Mobil 1 for me. Now I'm running the GC 0w-30 in the CX9 and my truck, and I when I get enough miles on the oils to take samples, I will compare the results of the GC to the Amsoil

I know a little off topic from the CX-9, but I just finished putting 8,300 miles on the Amsoil 5w-20 in my truck. On that fill, I changed the oil filter at 5k miles, and topped off with adding 1qt of oil. Blackstone said it looked good, and said to try 10,500 miles on the next oil. They said I wasted my time, and that I could have probably kept the filter in for the whole 8,300 miles. I drained the Amsoil and put in the GC on that oil change.

Thanks for the note about changing the filter. Honestly, you probably would have done just fine
leaving the old one in use all 8,306 miles, but changing it out didn't hurt anything. It'll be interesting to see
how the Castrol does, but the Amsoil certainly got the job done. Wear metals are nice and low and compare
well with universal averages. A little extra silicon was present. Check the air filtration system just to be safe,
but it could also be a harmless sealer or additive. The TBN read 2.6 showing some active additive
remaining. Try 10,500 miles on the next oil.

Also, I sent in an oil sample from the CX-9 after putting 7,450 miles on the Amsoil SS 5w-20. There were 9,950 total miles on the car. I drained the factory fill at 2,500 miles and changed filters. Blackstone said to try 9,000 miles next time. When I drained the Amsoil, I filled it with the GC, and put a new OEM filter on.

Copper and silicon are quite high in this sample from your CX-9. It looks like this is only the
second oil change for it though, so we're looking at residual stuff from the wear-in process rather than a
problem. Copper shows wear-in at brass/bronze parts and silicon is from factory sealers and sand-casted
parts. Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 5,700 miles on the oil.
The TBN was 2.1 showing some active additive left; less than 1.0 is too low. Try 9,000 miles on the next oil.
Things should look considerably better.

It's amazing that I can run oil longer than the "recommended" intervals that the manual states, and still have oil that is in good condition, still doing its job, and have plenty of active additives remaining...LOL

 

[Installshield 2]

blackntan...yeah, recommended change intervals are a pretty broad assumption when speaking of whats in a manual...

The best way, imo at least, to judge when an oil/filter change is needed...is through gas usage...Like it needs to be changed after 'X gallons' of gas i used...My father had a E46 330i a few years ago, and its computer calculated oil changes this exact way...and it makes sense...

Drive the car harder and you'll get worse gas mileage...using more gallons of gas in less total miles...and should change the filter/oil sooner than if you baby it for 15,000 miles...the car's computer would correlate that gallons used number and create a 'estimated change in X miles' reading...but you can easily come up with the same data yourself, just by keeping track of how much gas you go through...and your mpg readings...

 

[blackntan]

That does make a lot of sense. I've heard something about the higher end vehicles calculating when it is time for you to change the oil, rather than the standard maintenance light coming on at x,xxx miles, or just going by the manual. Never really knew how those cars calculated it, but I think I get it now. I assumed somehow that those high end cars somehow can analyze the oil, or some tricky s*** like that....

As far as keeping track of how many gallons of gas is used over long term, I'm too lazy for that (lol) The car is pretty much driven the same way every day. Whether it is me, or my wife filling up the tank, we both reset the computer AVG, and the trip. If I'm filling up, I hand calculate the MPG's, just out of curiosity, and compare it to the computer avg (which is always optimistic by a couple tenths or so). The thing pretty consistently gets high 15.x to mid 16.x MPGs, so I suppose that's a decent indicator of how it is driven, somewhat consistently. (around town). When I drive it for a week straight, I can increase the average by a full MPG, from where my wife left off...I really take it easy when I'm driving it. My truck, I drive it like I stole it...and get 11.5-12mpg

 

[Installshield 2]

yeah, those cars don't do anything that complicated to figure out that number...the only complicated part was resetting that computer log when i'd change the oil for him...way harder than it should've been haha.. That was a 2004, which he only kept for 3 years. Not sure if the newer cars are easier in that respect.

It was funny back then though. He'd drive very conservatively, keeping the change interval around every 13,000 miles...I was able to borrow it one weekend for a 1,000+ mile drive to and from Indianapolis for an F1 race in 2005...brought it back, and realized i had reduced that number down to a change in just 8,000 miles...uh...so...I bought the OE oil and filter and changed it for him when it finally needed it haha.