Suspension upgrade questions

[BillTheCat]

OK... here's the deal. I am interested in tightening up my suspension. (Bone stock '09 MS3 Sport) I'd like to reduce both body roll & understeer in tight corners. But I am not interested in lowering the car significantly, and don't want to trash the ride quality as a daily driver. (Coming from a MINI, the MS3 rides like a Caddy to me, so a little loss of smoothness is OK)

In the past, I have achieved this with springs & sway bars, so I feel comfortable that the same approach will probably do the job for the MS3. Sway bars, IMHO, are an absolute must, and I am liking the specs on the Hotchkiss set a whole lot.

I am wondering, however, if I should go with a set of coilovers instead of springs. It might be nice to be able to tweak & adjust the setup until I get it where it feels just right instead of buying a set of springs & being stuck with them. (I'm not one to buy the same parts over & over and keep replacing them)

But I'm not autocrossing or tracking the car, so it's not like I need to be able to adjust the suspension characteristics on a regular basis. So, having never actually installed & adjusted a coilover setup, I am wondering if it would just be overkill. Should I save some cash & just do the springs?

Part 2- Can this car take a mild suspension drop without needing aftermarket control arms, camber plates, etc. in order to keep camber in check? I don't see much mention of replacing those parts, so I am assuming that it's not much of an issue.

Part 3- Keeping in mind that I don't want to lower the car noticeably (I know that's blasphemy around here, but my personal choice), whichever setup you recommend, can anyone give firsthand recommendations on either springs or coilovers which improve handling without significantly slamming the car? (1/2" would be plenty for me, anything more than 1" would be criminal)

Many thans in advance for any answers, advice, and opinions offered.

 

[funksilver07]

If you go with something mild like pro-kit or something comparable no problem but, coilovers your probably going to have to go with the full 9 yards...

 

[Kain]

I would do the sway bars first and then take it from there. The turn-in will improve, but you'll still have the floaty feeling from improper damping that only aftermarket shocks can solve. But if you're like me (used to autocross a bunch, now just want a capable street car), you may find the sway bar(s) sufficient.

 

[mr_mazda329]

I'm with Kain on this one. Start off with the swaybars first.

 

[funksilver07]

Good call, that's where I'm going...

 

[BillTheCat]

If you go with something mild like pro-kit or something comparable no problem but, coilovers your probably going to have to go with the full 9 yards...

Now, do you say this because most folks get coilovers & immediately slam the car to the ground? Or are the coilovers for the MS3 simply so low, even at their "taller" settings, that you have to redesign the whole darned suspension system?

Kain- you got me. I used to autocross, but now I just want a car that feels solid & capable during my more spirited drives. With sway bars being the part I am 100% sure I want to do, they would come first. Just wondering about bang for the buck with springs vs. coilovers.

I have a sneaking suspicion that sway bars won't satisfy me 100%. (Would be pleased if they do, though)

 

[mr_mazda329]

If you get springs..no matter what type, make sure you upgrade your struts to match the spring rates. Doing this will make the car not bumpy. Of course you probably already know this.

 

[ericm]

The stock shocks are junk and will quickly get worse. You can replace them with Konis (yellow or FSD) or Volvo Bilsteins if you want to keep the stock springs. If you want coilovers, some of them can go up to close to stock ride height. The Mazdaspeed coilvers can be set up as high as 10mm drop from stock. I think the HR coilovers drop the car significantly at their highest setting. I am not sure how high the BC and its clones go.

 

[derspi]

I don't think just getting lowering springs on the MS3 is enough to get rid of the floaty feeling. When I first got the car, I thought it was actually damn scary when I hit a big dip and have the car pogo a bit before settling down. Not the most confidence inspiring when you're going 80 - 100 km/h.

I started out with just the Cobb rear ARB and am very happy with it on the stiffest setting. Car just sticks better and the onset of push is much much later and at faster speeds. I'm pretty sure you can induce oversteer with this setup.

Eventually, I couldn't put up with the float and got a set of H&R coilovers. I had these on my previous car and was very impressed with their balance of decent ride quality with improved handling. Mind you, this is a mild setup and is probably not well suited to the track as the spring rates are a bit on the soft side and there is no adjustable damping (only height adjustable). Like you, I didn't want to slam the car but I thought a small drop would look nice. I also really wanted to even out the ride height seeing that the front wheel well gap was noticeably larger than the rear. As it stands, I finally settled on a 1" drop up front and maybe a 1/2 - 3/4" drop in the rear. It's really quite subtle and looks just about perfect IMO. Most important is that it got rid of that floaty sensation all the while stiffening up the suspension a bit and the ride is very acceptable for my every day commute. I could go so far to say that the ride is really just a tad rougher than stock and that's only when going over really bad roads.

PS: Just want to clarify that the H&R coilovers at their highest setting, lowers the front about 3/4" and the rear about 1/2" so yes, there is a min. height and they do not have enough threads to bring the suspension back to stock height.

 

[BillTheCat]

Eventually, I couldn't put up with the float and got a set of H&R coilovers. I had these on my previous car and was very impressed with their balance of decent ride quality with improved handling. Mind you, this is a mild setup and is probably not well suited to the track as the spring rates are a bit on the soft side and there is no adjustable damping (only height adjustable). Like you, I didn't want to slam the car but I thought a small drop would look nice. I also really wanted to even out the ride height seeing that the front wheel well gap was noticeably larger than the rear. As it stands, I finally settled on a 1" drop up front and maybe a 1/2 - 3/4" drop in the rear. It's really quite subtle and looks just about perfect IMO. Most important is that it got rid of that floaty sensation all the while stiffening up the suspension a bit and the ride is very acceptable for my every day commute. I could go so far to say that the ride is really just a tad rougher than stock and that's only when going over really bad roads.

PS: Just want to clarify that the H&R coilovers at their highest setting, lowers the front about 3/4" and the rear about 1/2" so yes, there is a min. height and they do not have enough threads to bring the suspension back to stock height.

Derspi- thanks for the detailed info. Exactly what I was hoping for. Couple of questions, if you don't mind.

1. Did you have to install camber plates, replace controls arms, or other suspension components in order to align the car properly?

2. Are you running stock tire size (or near) and have you had any rubbing issues? I am considering going to 17's to save weight, but would try to get tires with a slightly taller sidewall to match overall circumference & keep the speedo accurate.

 

[BillTheCat]

If you get springs..no matter what type, make sure you upgrade your struts to match the spring rates. Doing this will make the car not bumpy. Of course you probably already know this.

Yep, but still- thanks for chiming in. You never know what the other guy doesn't know. If anyone else reads this thread looking for info, it may be a good reminder.

 

[derspi]

1. Did you have to install camber plates, replace controls arms, or other suspension components in order to align the car properly?

2. Are you running stock tire size (or near) and have you had any rubbing issues? I am considering going to 17's to save weight, but would try to get tires with a slightly taller sidewall to match overall circumference & keep the speedo accurate.

1) No other hardware needed as it was a very mild drop. I've never had a car that needed any of that stuff. In terms of alignment, camber is never really the issue (unless it's severe), it's really only castor and toe that eats tires when left out of spec for prolonged periods of time.

2) I'm still running the stock 18" tires & wheels with zero problems. Yeah, I've considered switching to 17s as well or at the very least, some lightweight 18s when I wear the stock tires out. I actually really don't mind the way the stock wheels look but they're heavy mofos!