fwiw-my GTI, when it was stock, FELT like it had an awesome linear curve. Smooth torque that was strong even at around 1500 RPM and it felt good until 500 shy of redline. That caused me to set a mental redline that didn't make it to the red part of the tach. After I flashed the ECU, I had that same smoothness but with a way bigger punch. However, it seemed to gasp for air about 1000 RPM's less than when it was in stock mode. A neuspeed intake helped out with the higher RPM's. So my take for what this article states with it having a 'magnificent engine is notable, but just not as much power as the speed is able to put down. The 2.0T FSI is a great engine, for what it is. It's being used in several other VW's and Audis. Same for the 2.3 that Mazda uses. My mazda5 has the 2.3 and it also is a 'great' engine. I'd LOVE to take my mazda5 and convert it to a Speed5...LOL. The k20's awesome too I think. These articles always confuse me because it seems they cater to different audiences all the time. Few months later, they reverse and they'll say the new Cobalt, or Caliber is awesome!!
stock dyno results: civic, gti, ms3
- Thread starter oaklandopen
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There's something about a high-revving motor that's a little more special than just using FI to make power.
For example, take a supercharged Small Block Chevy 350 (5.7L)... makes tons of power, let's say 450hp, revs to around 7,000 rpm... it's a pretty good, light, and powerful motor. But compare that to something like the Ferrari Flat-12 from the F512M Testarossa, which also makes about 450hp, but does it with 4.9L spread over 12 cylinders, and revs with a godlike sound.
I'm not saying Honda motors are the s***, or that they're "Ferrari like", but there is something special about making power with rpm over displacement and/or force induction. Check out an F1 race in person sometime if you can... 19,000 rpm is an *incredible* sound.
I agree mostly but automoble mags article didn't give the speed3's motor enough credit in my opinion. I've driven all 3 cars mulitple times and owned 2 of them.
I can't argue with that. But the guy writing the article flat out says he doesn't like turbo motors... so I wouldn't expect the article to be unbiased. If you believe that FI is a "cop-out" and unrefined, of course you're going to like the K20 better.
Hell, the K20 is an awesome motor... it just needs to be in a car weighing 1700 lbs.
Totally agree and I see your point.
Yeah a K20 in a Honda Fit or something would be pretty badass!
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The mag article was obviously biased. In the end it really doesn't matter, we all chose this car because we thought it was the better car and IMO, it is. Hell, check out the Honda forums and see how many civic SI owners are switching over. How many GTI owners and even WRX/STI owners are considering it...lots. There's even a thread dedicated to it on Nasoic of all places.
Sorry to say but the k20 is old news and until Honda decides to go FI, it will continue to be outclassed. The GTI either needs to join the 260+ hp club or come down a little in price.
Sorry to say but the k20 is old news and until Honda decides to go FI, it will continue to be outclassed. The GTI either needs to join the 260+ hp club or come down a little in price.
From Nasoic eh? I like lurking over there a lot. Seems like a very knowledgeable no-nonsense bunch.
Yeah the k20 would be fun in a light car, no doubt. The lack of torque is what really hinders it's low to midrange performance. It's just that a car like above would put it in a whole different market where they'd demand an arm and leg for it.
Yeah the k20 would be fun in a light car, no doubt. The lack of torque is what really hinders it's low to midrange performance. It's just that a car like above would put it in a whole different market where they'd demand an arm and leg for it.
Just don't be a dumb n00b at NASIOC and you can survive there. :lol:
And to me the ideal use of a high-revving Honda motor is a very light track only type car... that way you're always in the VTEC range, and don't need a lot of torque because the car is low mass. Liter sport bike motors also work well, but they tend to need frequent work and rebuilds to keep running in the 200hp range (like in a Radical or many D-Sports Racer type cars) whereas a 2.0L Honda motor will make enough horsepower to make up for the additional weight and won't need a rebuild every 40 hours.
