SRT-4 Jumping???
- Thread starter kazson
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TampaBlackMSP
Member
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- '03 Blk Mica MSP
How is this thread turning bad? I'm not seeing it, nor the need to delete - if you want an SRT, whoop-di-doo, if you want a MSP, fantastic. Yay America!
Uh-oh, not trying to offend those that aren't in America. (blah)
Uh-oh, not trying to offend those that aren't in America. (blah)
We're just having a little fun.mazdaspeedchick said:
Anyhow, to take things back to a serious note. People just need to realize that while the SRT-4 is targeted to fight the other top sport compacts, it does it in a different way. One of the things I love about the SRT-4 is that it is a modern incarnation of the true muscle car. No, not a Mustang or a Camaro. A real muscle car. Like the Road Runners and Super Bees of the late 60's & early 70's.
You take a "low rent" car like the Coronet was (and Neon is) and then you drop a very powerful and torquey powerplant in it. Back it with a tranny capable of handling it, price it well and there you go. Muscle car. That's why I think it's kind of cool the interior is cheap, no power rear windows, no leather, no wood grain. Just cheap, easy to mod. power.
Mopar went out to get a piece of today's youth sales and they did it in much the same way as they did back in the day. Yes, you can compare the SRT-4 to the MSP, the WRX, Spec V, etc. since that's what it is targeted to take on, but it will never be a true comparison since the SRT-4 has such a different design principle behind it. Considering how many of them I see popping up now-a-days I would say it's working.
To each their own. It's not a great car, but it's not a bad car either. One thing I'll always remember about it is the fact that when it was released I was still on the Mustang Forums and it was so funny to see all of those GT owners start bitching about getting smoked by "a little ******* Neon!"
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Yup I agree this is probably the most mature discussion we have on the srt-4 vs. msp thread ever on this forum. I have to pick upgrading engine over suspension and let me explain before people flame me on this.
1. I work on engines for my daily living, I worry about multi-million machinery that cranks out XX,XXX hp. So engine aka thermodynamic stuff is easier for me to comprehend.
2. To do a suspension system properly you have do to do the whole thing. Experience what an aftermarket car feels like and a stock well-tuned suspension feels like. The stock suspension system is a compromise but it handles well. Now that being said, if I ever get a SRT-4, I would have to redo the whole suspension system to fit that much hp. That's major $$$$$, I'm talking about changing suspension geometry, parts, spring rates, bump stops, alignment, and chassis stiffening, and contact surface.
3. MSP suspension is well design for street everyday driving and spirited track driving. It's a fwd so too much hp on it is useless anyway. Right now, I'm looking into pumping up my msp but more along the top end with a nice straight hp and flat torque curve. This motor does not have a very good top end. This is shown for example in Brian's latest dyno. He's a forge motor and new turbo, but his tq curve still falls off at the top end. I want to maintain that peak. The suspension of this car will allow this power pump no problem.
4. The turn-in of this car is simply amazing, granted it can power out like an evo, but I bet it can enter the corner at the same speed.
5. The balance of this car is aboslutely the best thing you can get at the price range of this car. weight transfer is so easy on it and the car responds very well and communicates very well.
6. HP isn't everything, unless all you live for is 1/4 mile at a time. It's weight transfer and putting down usable power that wins, look at s2000.
lastly everyone talks about car to trade for msp well for me there's like 3:
lotus exige, rx7, or a mr-s with 3sgte.
SRT-4 = fast car, but not balanced.
1. I work on engines for my daily living, I worry about multi-million machinery that cranks out XX,XXX hp. So engine aka thermodynamic stuff is easier for me to comprehend.
2. To do a suspension system properly you have do to do the whole thing. Experience what an aftermarket car feels like and a stock well-tuned suspension feels like. The stock suspension system is a compromise but it handles well. Now that being said, if I ever get a SRT-4, I would have to redo the whole suspension system to fit that much hp. That's major $$$$$, I'm talking about changing suspension geometry, parts, spring rates, bump stops, alignment, and chassis stiffening, and contact surface.
3. MSP suspension is well design for street everyday driving and spirited track driving. It's a fwd so too much hp on it is useless anyway. Right now, I'm looking into pumping up my msp but more along the top end with a nice straight hp and flat torque curve. This motor does not have a very good top end. This is shown for example in Brian's latest dyno. He's a forge motor and new turbo, but his tq curve still falls off at the top end. I want to maintain that peak. The suspension of this car will allow this power pump no problem.
4. The turn-in of this car is simply amazing, granted it can power out like an evo, but I bet it can enter the corner at the same speed.
5. The balance of this car is aboslutely the best thing you can get at the price range of this car. weight transfer is so easy on it and the car responds very well and communicates very well.
6. HP isn't everything, unless all you live for is 1/4 mile at a time. It's weight transfer and putting down usable power that wins, look at s2000.
lastly everyone talks about car to trade for msp well for me there's like 3:
lotus exige, rx7, or a mr-s with 3sgte.
SRT-4 = fast car, but not balanced.
DigitalHeadShot
Member
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- 05 EVO "MR", 04 mazda3
xtrememps said:
trust me you dont want to come here lol jacksonville NC is HELL, not like hell but HELL lol
P
pb4ugoout
my brother bought a new car a few months before i bought my msp. he drove several cars, including an msp, before finally deciding on a new civic si, just more his style of car. he also drove an srt-4. he would have gotten it but it was a little out of his price range. well when i bought my msp a few months later i too drove an srt-4. i drove lots of cars many times, including but not a full list, a tiburon gt, a celica gts, a civic si, an rsx-s, and a turbo beetle. (took me almost a month of driving to decide) of all the cars my decision was fought between the srt-4 and the mazdaspeed. i bought the msp because i thought it was a much better looking car and i felt more in control and more a "part" of the car than with any of the others. i felt as if it were an extension of my body. so easy to control, going fast or slow. it felt more real to me. however there isn't a day that doesn't go by that i don't think about my decision. did i get the better car. but after reading this i think i have. i absolutely adore my msp. i don't think i will wonder about the 'what if's' had i gotten an srt-4. for overall performance i think the msp is the winner. like someone said eariler, it's a much more balanced car. and thats my 2 cents...
I have never been a fan of domestic vehicles. Yes I'm half asian, but I'm a Korean American. I'm not a fan of Korean cars either. I just can't get past the poor quality that goes into Domestic vehicles. Fit and finish is a high priority to me, but not to American automakers for the most part; granted, they're getting much better. I feel that a lot of people these days, especially American auto workers don't have any pride in their jobs. Of course there are exceptions, but at my job the number of people that would rather accomplish a task quickly and easily compared to the number of people that would do it the correct and best way is 10 to 1. American automakers are currently faced with fallen sales (overall) and no money to pay all of the retired employees' pensions that their unions got for them. GM is really hit hard by this. There is no easy fix, but I think the quality is going to suffer because of this.
My point is that even feeling this way, I kicked around the thought of checking out the Neon SRT-4 because of the power. After seeing the interior though, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I understand that they're main goal was power, and some people could care less about quality and refinement. This car is great if horsepower is your number one priority. I just couldn't get past the fact that they actually had power front windows and manual rear ones. Nissan did something similar to this in the early 90's with the Sentra SE-R. No power window option was available, but a powered sunroof was an option. Weird....These days, it's hard to find a vehicle with manual windows. That's not my only complaint with the interior but an example.
I guess that the people jumping to the Neon just want more power. I'm sure there are some Neon owners that envy the interior of the MSP and get tired of looking at miles of cheap plastic in their cars.
Sorry this was so long, I actually kept it pretty short. I know I'll hear countless stories of granpa's Ford that has 400,000 miles on it, and Hondas that broke down right after driving off of the showroom floor. Again, there are exceptions to everything. Just my 2 cents. Hey, my favorite color is red....I'm sure not everyone's is.
My point is that even feeling this way, I kicked around the thought of checking out the Neon SRT-4 because of the power. After seeing the interior though, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I understand that they're main goal was power, and some people could care less about quality and refinement. This car is great if horsepower is your number one priority. I just couldn't get past the fact that they actually had power front windows and manual rear ones. Nissan did something similar to this in the early 90's with the Sentra SE-R. No power window option was available, but a powered sunroof was an option. Weird....These days, it's hard to find a vehicle with manual windows. That's not my only complaint with the interior but an example.
I guess that the people jumping to the Neon just want more power. I'm sure there are some Neon owners that envy the interior of the MSP and get tired of looking at miles of cheap plastic in their cars.
Sorry this was so long, I actually kept it pretty short. I know I'll hear countless stories of granpa's Ford that has 400,000 miles on it, and Hondas that broke down right after driving off of the showroom floor. Again, there are exceptions to everything. Just my 2 cents. Hey, my favorite color is red....I'm sure not everyone's is.
We have a member that is getting into the mid 13s on $500 worth of parts that could easily be removed. If you spend $2k, then you are pretty much saying that what's being built should handle a reasonable amount of power for 36/36,000. If you replace the internals, injectors, and ECU then you really can't have any beef with Mazda.P5 Rally said:
My main criteria is, if you race every weekend during summer for at 1/4mile 6 times, you only put on around 20 miles a year at the strip. I spend another 15000 miles in my car either in traffic, going slow, or actually finding an empty road. I would rather buy a car that will be comfortable and fun for the 98.6666666667% of my time that I spend in my car. I just can't see spending over $17k for a car with an economy interior regardless of being a Protege, Sentra, Civic, or Neon. That's why the MSP was so appealing. Decent car for under $17k that you could have fun with.
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
This is my .02 on this subject. Last night at the dragstrip there were 4 srt-4's and 2 MSP's (including mine). I was faster than every srt-4 there and 2 of them had "stage-2 w/toys" (whatever that means....he seemed happy about it until I told him what I run.) They all claimed it was because they were getting bad 60' times (2.2-2.4), but that's about what I get. So they talked some sh*t about if we raced from a roll....I just went along with them. Anyways I was running 11-12psi last night and got an avg of 13.50-13.67 @ 102-104mph. I dropped it back down to my normal 9psi for the ride home. On the highway 2 of the srt-4's came on the side of me so I played along. (one was a stage-2 car and the other had an intake and maybe exhaust couldnt tell). From a 55mph roll to the end of 4th. I was probably around 5-6car lengths ahead easy..........
Now I know there are some wicked srt-4's but just don't under rate the MSP. I have less than $1400 in it and most of that is thermal wrap, flywheel, and clutch.
Now I know there are some wicked srt-4's but just don't under rate the MSP. I have less than $1400 in it and most of that is thermal wrap, flywheel, and clutch.
I think that some people shouldn't have bought the MSP in the first place! The MSP is NOT for drag racing!! If you want hp, if you only care about the 1/4 mile then the SRT-4 is the one! Best ratio in dollar/hp on the market, no doubts. And now with the Quaife diff. it even handles corners better! But the driving experience is not the same and the power curve is not nearly as flexible as the MSP. Mazdaspeed is for the twisties, and that's exacly why I got it! BTW, here in Montreal they don't seem that popular (wonder why?) and the price is very low... (it's $21K US for the 2004 model!).
They are different cars and, IMO, for different people. I don't understand why some people want to compare the MSP with the SRT-4. For my part, I compare it more with the Integra Type R bcs to me they are in the same class...
They are different cars and, IMO, for different people. I don't understand why some people want to compare the MSP with the SRT-4. For my part, I compare it more with the Integra Type R bcs to me they are in the same class...
I haven't debated THIS topic in awhile .. so hell, why not throw somethin' in, right?
I test drove both cars. For me, it was the MSP. Physically, I actually FIT better into the MSP -- the shifter was placed right, my legs hit right, the wheel sat at the right level, and so on and so forth. The SRT-4's seats were uncomfortable (that most likely has to do with me being so short, as I'm a female and only 5'1"), I didn't like the shifter, I didn't like the stereo, and I just wasn't a fan of the blah interior. Also, I was looking for a spirited daily driver -- not something to take to a drag strip. I wanted a car that I could play with and complete some mods on -- but nothing hugely serious. The MSP fit that desire. Don't get me wrong, the SRT-4 was a thrill during the test drive -- the engine is amazing and the exhaust is very close to being provocative. But from an overall viewpoint .. the MSP simply matched what I was looking for.
IMHO, it's all a matter of what you're interested in buying. If you want the power and the ability to concentrate on building up your engine -- SRT-4 all the way, as the possibilites there are astounding. But I chose my MSP because it offered an ample share of power (with the ability to drop cash and REALLY make it fly, if I so chose), a wonderful sense of balance, and eye-catching looks.
To each their own. I'm happy in my decision, and I hope that whoever's hopped -- or is planning on hopping -- to whatever other car will be happy as well.
I test drove both cars. For me, it was the MSP. Physically, I actually FIT better into the MSP -- the shifter was placed right, my legs hit right, the wheel sat at the right level, and so on and so forth. The SRT-4's seats were uncomfortable (that most likely has to do with me being so short, as I'm a female and only 5'1"), I didn't like the shifter, I didn't like the stereo, and I just wasn't a fan of the blah interior. Also, I was looking for a spirited daily driver -- not something to take to a drag strip. I wanted a car that I could play with and complete some mods on -- but nothing hugely serious. The MSP fit that desire. Don't get me wrong, the SRT-4 was a thrill during the test drive -- the engine is amazing and the exhaust is very close to being provocative. But from an overall viewpoint .. the MSP simply matched what I was looking for.
IMHO, it's all a matter of what you're interested in buying. If you want the power and the ability to concentrate on building up your engine -- SRT-4 all the way, as the possibilites there are astounding. But I chose my MSP because it offered an ample share of power (with the ability to drop cash and REALLY make it fly, if I so chose), a wonderful sense of balance, and eye-catching looks.
To each their own. I'm happy in my decision, and I hope that whoever's hopped -- or is planning on hopping -- to whatever other car will be happy as well.
