Spool Stage 1 VS BEGI/FM Turbos
- Thread starter speed-dog
- Start date
speed-dog said:
If you put it that way...very simplistic question..then no...
but there are two very different kits...with two very different advantages to both.....
there is too much information on this subject to sum up in a post but...here you go:
Spool stage1: cheaper starting point, upgradable if you want to, great horsepower for the $$$, it really forces you to stay within the 4.5-5 psi range, great customer service.
FM: keeps your 1st cat, intercooled (side mounted), no cutting, no need to visit a exhuast shop, complete kit, Miata history, great customer service
I hate this particular saying..."but search" its useful...but it is overwhelming...but this type of investment should not be takin lightly so...get reading.
Oh..yeah Hiboost at $3995 is also an awesome value....great HP... electronically controlled fuel delivery/management
Spool stage1: cheaper starting point, upgradable if you want to, great horsepower for the $$$, it really forces you to stay within the 4.5-5 psi range, great customer service.
FM: keeps your 1st cat, intercooled (side mounted), no cutting, no need to visit a exhuast shop, complete kit, Miata history, great customer service
I hate this particular saying..."but search" its useful...but it is overwhelming...but this type of investment should not be takin lightly so...get reading.
Oh..yeah Hiboost at $3995 is also an awesome value....great HP... electronically controlled fuel delivery/management
Yes YP5 is absolutley correct. You cannot compare FM's kit to our stage 1 and you cannot compare dyno numbers. Many factors and variables are present such as what octane fuel did the manufactures use at the dyno? What was the altitude?, What was the the temp and humidity ect?
Our kit is non intercooled and is limited to 4.5psi. FM's is is limited to 7psi I believe.
For the extra 1000 you get more than just 7hp.
On a side not our stage 1 is a great kit, easy to install and extremely reliable. A great starting point for the first time turbo owner
Our kit is non intercooled and is limited to 4.5psi. FM's is is limited to 7psi I believe.
For the extra 1000 you get more than just 7hp.
On a side not our stage 1 is a great kit, easy to install and extremely reliable. A great starting point for the first time turbo owner
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YP5 Toronto said:
The intercooler is front mounted. It is mounted in the front of the car.
Not quite sure what you mean by "side mounted." The intercooler is mounted vertically, instead of horizontally as comapred to how most intercoolers are mounted.
But yes, the FP kit comes with a number of things different than Terry's kit and you can't really look at dyno numbers because of the differences in dynos.
I do know altitude wasn't a factor.
Expect to see "new" different numbers on the FP kits soon, as they are making adapter hubs to fit the Protege on the new dyno. And, new parts are being looked at to "upgrade" to later on.
StuttersC said:
ummm....of course it is mounted in the front....but its verticle and off the the driver's "SIDE" of the car and not centered.... Please correct me if FM has changed their kit to the horizontal mounted intercooler...if not there are advantages and disadvantages to this type of setup.
(i'm sure I made sense in my original post, if i didn't then i appologize)
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YP5 Toronto said:
It's actually not that far off of center and it is mounted vertically. The advantage is that it's well designed and effiecient and get's plenty of air there. What is the dissadvantage, other than size?
But efficiency is more important than size to me.
They do have a new option of the "show intercooler" that is mounted in the middle of the lower grill. The more traditional look for the intercooler. They haven't dynoed this version yet. But it looks to be slightly larger than the standard intercooler.
I'm not sure what tone you think I have regarding FM's Kit..but I think you have it wrong...I never said it wasn't well designed nor inefficient...
I strongly believe that a FMIC that is horizontal and "more in the open" is a better solution...BUT....in the grand scheme of how much boost is being used on the FM Kit (as it stands now, not including any upgrades to turbo or ECU solution) the side mount is more than enough! The great ADVANTAGE the FM kit has with this setup...is NO CUTTING, hence much easier to install. One thing that I did note...as I had the opporunity to have the World of Wheels.Ca car with me for a weekend is that the piping that runs underneath is a concern for BIG bumps and/or cars that are lowered....
I strongly believe that a FMIC that is horizontal and "more in the open" is a better solution...BUT....in the grand scheme of how much boost is being used on the FM Kit (as it stands now, not including any upgrades to turbo or ECU solution) the side mount is more than enough! The great ADVANTAGE the FM kit has with this setup...is NO CUTTING, hence much easier to install. One thing that I did note...as I had the opporunity to have the World of Wheels.Ca car with me for a weekend is that the piping that runs underneath is a concern for BIG bumps and/or cars that are lowered....
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I see where you going with it...
As I understand having the intercooler slightly "hidden" is actually better for flow over it.
And I think an FMIC is dang near every intercooler ever mounted. The exceptions being Porsche, which is top mounted and in the rear of the car, the Scooby is top mounted and so was the second gen turbo RX-7.
But, that's MHO...
And yes, I have scraped my intercooler pipes some. I'm not quite sure how the "show intercooler" they offer runs the pipes, but I think they come in from the sides?
As I understand having the intercooler slightly "hidden" is actually better for flow over it.
And I think an FMIC is dang near every intercooler ever mounted. The exceptions being Porsche, which is top mounted and in the rear of the car, the Scooby is top mounted and so was the second gen turbo RX-7.
But, that's MHO...
And yes, I have scraped my intercooler pipes some. I'm not quite sure how the "show intercooler" they offer runs the pipes, but I think they come in from the sides?
YP5 Toronto said:
I have talked to Ken at flying Miata and he stated that there are probably NO GAINS with the other front mount design, simply because of its design, it is all show, more runners are better than longer runners, the vertical intercooler they use actualy cools air more efficiently than the other, but the front mount makes up for that in size
K
Keith@FP
The new IC is quite a bit larger than the vertical mount. You do have to cut two 2.5" holes in a piece of sheetmetal near the driver's front wheel for the pipes to go through, but there's no worry about dragging them with the routing. That's certainly a problem with the smaller design. We had our car slammed for a while trying out some new suspension and it really beat up our pipes...
The fundamental design is less efficient - ICs with few long runs don't work as well as ICs with lots of short runs, vertical vs horizontal has nothing to do with it - but it's very visible and should still do the job. No word yet on what it might do to the cooling system of the car given the amount of airflow blocked, but since most people don't take their protege on the racetrack this may not be an issue. It's a huge concern with the Miata folks.
Spool uses a different size turbo than we do. Basically, his is biased more towards top-end power while ours is more focused on response. You can't see this from quoting peak numbers. If you decide you really need 300 hp at the front wheels, Terry's got a better starting point than we do. If you just want a moderate (well, 77% more) power increase with fewer compromises but a more difficult upgrade path at the moment, ours is probably worth a look.
Keith
The fundamental design is less efficient - ICs with few long runs don't work as well as ICs with lots of short runs, vertical vs horizontal has nothing to do with it - but it's very visible and should still do the job. No word yet on what it might do to the cooling system of the car given the amount of airflow blocked, but since most people don't take their protege on the racetrack this may not be an issue. It's a huge concern with the Miata folks.
Spool uses a different size turbo than we do. Basically, his is biased more towards top-end power while ours is more focused on response. You can't see this from quoting peak numbers. If you decide you really need 300 hp at the front wheels, Terry's got a better starting point than we do. If you just want a moderate (well, 77% more) power increase with fewer compromises but a more difficult upgrade path at the moment, ours is probably worth a look.
Keith
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