Spicy Orange or Titanium Grey?!

[sleeper_]

lol wow talk about a rant. hahah.. i know what you mean; however, your colour and production # complaints fall by the way-side (ie, they're relatively minor complaints) and business is business. (get this, people who've gotten early production spec-v's got the flipup shield for their sunroof whereas later models did not. people w/o it have a major NVH issue: an unbearable "WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP" with the windows up and sunroof open. it's apparent that they got rid of it as a cost cutting measure) i think the deletion of the flip-up shield for spec-v owners is actually something to get upset over b/c lack of it affects the quality of your vehicle whereas something totally independent (colour and production #'s) of your vehicle doesn't.

-as for people converting their cars to mp3s, it's costing them quite a bit more $ than your mp3 cost you so the people converting their cars to mp3's can be "suckers" in your view
-also, options for mazdaspeed upgrades and keeping your warranty are likely to be offered, but not initially (plus, factory means cheaper cost for buyer vs paying insane dealer labour rates)

-spark market demand and meet it, image enhancement, showroom stopper is what limited editions are about when it comes down to it, that's why there is the lack of a turbo upgrade for now.

-"just want money" lol, with the amount of tuning that went into the msp, and cost of the parts etc, i dont' think they're making all the much money, not to mention warranty issues are likely to be more costly with the msp (turbo related that is)

-warranty issues become more of a pain depending on the dealer
(dealer license practice code is stricter in canada vs states, so better for the canucks)

-as for the colour, it's a matter of personal taste. some say it looks absolutely amazing, deep clear coat etc. some say it's outright a stupid colour.

-as for the tranny, yes, do YOUR research: they've upgraded the the clutch to a heavy-duty friction disc and pressure plate, and they've upgraded the driveshafts to 24mm vs 22mm

-not to mention the following: limited slip differential, further modified suspension, better audio system and its implementation, and others

-again, if there are problems, the warranty exists for a reason.

 

[Protege01MP3]

ok... so the fact that a car is limited edition isnt something to cry about ok... but something that "lack of it affects the quality of your vehicle" OK.. how bout mazda ripping off most of the mp3 owners and putting head units in that were 400 ******* dollars cheaper than the ones they put in a few of the mp3s... thats not equality.... it doesnt cause a god damn whump whump.. but its still 400 US cheaper peice of equipment...

- "spark market demand and meet it, image enhancement, showroom stopper is what limited editions are about when it comes down to it, that's why there is the lack of a turbo upgrade for now."

that has nothing to do w/ the reason they didnt make a turbo upgrade... just because a car is limited edition.. and looks phat as hell its not allowed to have a turbo upgrade????????? ok... even tho thats just what a mazdaspeed is.. an mp3 w/ a turbo... but whatever...

- "warranty issues become more of a pain depending on the dealer"

Mazda doesnt believe in warranties... we'll just leave it at that...

- "as for the colour, its a matter of personal taste"

I agree 100%... but it looks nothing in person like it does in pictures.. thats all i was saying

-"as for the tranny, yes, do YOUR research: they've upgraded the the clutch to a heavy-duty friction disc and pressure plate, and they've upgraded the driveshafts to 24mm vs 22mm"

ok.. u got me there.. i havent done any research on this car as im not too fond of it... the orange isnt to appealing to me... and all they did was modify my car further.... I just hope that these trannies hold up...

- "not to mention the following: limited slip differential, further modified suspension, better audio system and its implementation, and others"

i knew about the lsd and suspension... but as for a better audio system?? hahaha... as far as has been confirmed.. there arent even any speakers in the rear deck.. theyre all in the doors.... and as far as i know they used the kenwood stuff again (if im wrong correct me) so how can it be superior???

- "again, if there are problems, the warranty exists for a reason."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
did u forget what company were talking about here????? we've already established the fact that mazda doesnt believe in warranties... they take the money for it at the time of purchase.. but thats about as far as the warranty goes... especially if you actually put more than about 5 - 10 miles on the car....

 

[sleeper_]

-the stereo thing would've pissed me all the same, but really, you can get a better stereo right? how about trying to get a the flip up shield for your sunroof that they no longer make! hahah that's REALLY piss me off. heheh

-the turbo upgrade thing i mentioned b/c they're not READY to release it as an "upgrade" just yet, and would depend on what kind of deal they can make with callaway (mods on the msp are subsidized for the companies associated with it due to increased exposure of their name--advertising/marketing costs they've saved on, but the retail aftermarket doesn't get the luxury of saving on)

-as for the warranty issues, i'm not completely experienced with but dealers DO make a considerable difference not to mention i'm in canada, not the states (i mentioned the stricter dealer licensing rules in canada vs the us)

-as for the audio system, but i must say that the implementation is better in the msp vs mp3 (i'm referring to the sub and amplifier) and i know kenwood isn't that "great" but it's definitely better than stock and the rockford fosgate "powered" audio system in the spec-v's which is a joke (only the amp is rockford fosgate and their "9" speakers are 2 tweeters, 2 front door mids, 2 two-way rear shelf speakers which they count as 4, and the sub)

 

[Protege01MP3]

you make valid points... and thank you for being such a nice guy i sounded kinda like an ass in that last post... but as for the stereo.. yes.. ive already upgraded and gotten an alpine screen along w/ numerous other ICE goodies... the thing is.. they scraped an extra 400 out of my ass by cheaping me on the stereo...

about the turbo upgrade... i understand that.. but i dont see how it would have been more expensive to offer a turbo upgrade for this car... i mean.. even if they released the msp still.. atleast off the upgrade for us... YOU CANT GET ANY PARTS FROM THE MSP WITHOUTH A CORE EXCHANGE... this info comes straight from a friend at mazda... and what this means is... without a valid vin # AND the broken/replaced part you cant order any parts from the msp.... which is bs in my opinion... joe schmoe protege can buy all the parts from my mp3 and build his own... even tho it wont be an mp3 at heart.. he can get everything he needs... but i cant get a turbo

and yes.. dealer does make a difference.. or so ive heard... there is one dealer that is better than the other around here... but they both still screwed me... and there are two others.. 1 of which ive heard bad things also.. and the other should be ok from what ive heard.. havent gotten down to them yet...

and i s'pose the amp and sub in the trunk are upgraded for the msp.. but you have to go with all around sound.. not just bass in the trunk (i have 2 12"s... yes.. bass IS important)

once again.. thx for not turning this into a flame war

 

[slug420]

your posts were too long. i did not have the patience to read them.

:mad:

 

[sleeper_]

hehe, np, i don't like flaming other peeps unless they outright get on my ass. and i knew you were just upset over those things which is more frustration than anything.

yep, the stereo thing definitely would've pissed me off although the manufacturer reserves the right to change the car in little ways and i don't know how much they're allowed to deviate from what was initially being produced. (improvement wise i imagine it's fine, but to take something out totally is wrong i would assume) unless they clearly indicate it.

the turbo upgrade thing is simple, callaway doesn't have ad/marketing costs to pay b/c of "free" advertising in a way through the msp and all the press it's gotten so in "exchange" for their name exposure and affiliation callaway offers "cheaper" developmental costs to mazda or even at cost or lower even? who knows. BUT the aftermarket is entirely different and consequently that really isn't subsidized through the msp, it would simply be sold as an "upgrade". Economimcally, the only way price would go down is if the demand was great enough but not exceed their production capacity otherwise demand would exceed supply

the fact that you can't get a turbo from mazda unless it's exchange only confirms the cost subsidization part of what i'm explaining and that they're not ready to release it as an upgrade.

yes, bass is important to me, however, not as important as loss of trunk space and sound quality. at the same time i'm not ready to spend more $ for upgrading sound system in any ways, so the msp meets my needs perfectly =) subsidized entry level? aftermarket sound quality (better than factory) w/o really compromising trunk space

 

[sleeper_]

slug420, lol
and lol about me being a post ***** for once and replying with this. lol

 

[MI MSP]

Ok sleeper you seem like an intelligent guy so I wont be simplistic.

Where are we seeing all the ads for the MSP? Its not on TV.. Its in specialy mags like SCC.. Now with the initial offering not completely sold out right now (although once the MSP hits the floor they will go quick) so the advertising $ is gone.. the target group they already marketed to is saturated so little additional sales will come from this market, you will need to advertise to the general public (tv and maybe some radio or some combination like that).. so additional $ will have to be spent.

When an automaker is researching a new model or designing it the costs are sunk, which is why you hear so much today about automakers devolping models for 04, 05 and beyond. So the development of the MSP has been sunk.. we pay for the materials in the car, inbound freight, outbound freight, dealer floorplan, engineering (not development), warranty, etc, etc, etc plus some profit.

For a production car your theory would hold true (fixed costs at the plant for example).

So Mazda will make more in profits just because additional units, however they will not make an increment on each car.. they may even make less due to the fact they will probably have to pay more to get someone to modify them (Or raise the MSRP).

 

[sleeper_]

i understand that additional $ will be spent on ad costs but it's doubtful that the same amount of ad dollars $ per vehicle for the initial release will be have to be spent for the 2nd release, right? almost certainly so; mind you it is STILL a limited edition. plus, it's not like the market for the msp disappears after the 1st release, right? there will still be demand for the vehicle. also people not everyone in the msp market is buying 1st release. The spec-v they can't even keep on the lots here in canada; every single one ordered is sold which isn't the case in the states as i understand. also, so what if the 2nd release aren't snatched up an in instant? you would expect them to sell quickly if they do make it to the showroom floor, it's not like people visiting mazda dealerships are prohibited from buying the msp. and so what if EVERY single one isn't sold as quickly as others, they will sell. if the cars don't sell quickly the dealer will be hurt more than the manufacturer by not getting dealer hold back and incentives etc.

as for the developmental cost and what not, you're saying the when we buy a car the manufacturer doesn't factor in what it's developing costs are before setting a price? and that the $ is only considered as part of paying for the current developing of future cars? ie, they go purely by year to year basis and don't consider investment and return on a particular line/product? I understand overall they go year to year and they have a tabulation of costs and revenue and what's leftover is profit for stockholders and so if they sold many more proteges this year it's just more profit in the bank. However obviously they do set a price so the car is profitable so they do know developmental costs with a plan to use the particular platform for x # of years, consequently what i'm saying about fixed cost per car is still true being divided into each additional car produced is true.

as for them maybe making less per car b/c they have to get someone to modify them, that's speculative is it not?

 

[slug420]

(bang)

 

[sleeper_]

(hear ya) hahahahaha. slug, i feel the same way.. hahahaha.. (bicker) (nuts) but i either have to be corrected or the other does hehehe

 

[dimic]

I'd have to agree with sleeper.

Cost of car per unit is shared between:
1. research/dev,
2. production (both regular and all mods),
3. advertisement bucks,
4. cost of financing production (reverseble proportional to how quickly cars are sold)
5. management overhead
6. Freight

What I mean with No 5 is possible overtime in production, screwed or imoroved capacity utilization, diff. cost of parts, etc...

Now, if Mazda is smart, No 2, 5 and 6 will be fixed costs for both batches, 'cause Mazda controls release dates. With gained experience from first batch, they can even squeeze some savings.

No 3 and 4 are probably higher for second batch, because as you guys mentioned, market will be saturated to some extent.

However. No 1 does not exist for second batch and that outweight 3 and 4.

So yes, second batch of MSPs will be more profitable for Mazda than first one. It still may be a loss, we do not know if Mazda is making any profit of it, but in that case it will be smaller loss than first batch.

End of debate (yea, riiiiiiiiiight)

P.S. If main goal of MSP was showroom traffic and brand image, than this analysis does not matter anyway

 

[slug420]

its all good, keep goin to your collective heart's content.....just do me a favor and post a 3 line summation when you guys are done

if its more than 3 lines then try to throw in some pictures to make it easier on me

 

[dimic]

Three line summary:

It makes sense for Mazda to have second batch of MSPs, whether we like it or not...

 

[dimic]

I swear there were three lines only!!! Someone else wrapped around last line

 

[slug420]

hahaha, thanks!

 

[mp3girly]

Didn't read most of this post, but here is my personal experience:

Went to Import Expo in Houston, whenever that was. There was an orange Mazdaspeed .. BEAUTIFUL in person. The interior looks GREAT with the orange stitching. SUPER NICE CAR.

I talked to the Mazda rep there and he told me that there would be a spring run of the titanium grey and yellow.

Man, I'd sell my soul for a titanium grey one.. sigh.

 

[arkitek]

Must have seen the TSN Motoring 2002 review like 10 times (taped) and I must say the orange MSP looks very good. I find overall the protege looks much better with a bright color. The Pro5 looks very good in yellow for example. The dark color makes it look smaller and hightlight the ugly taillights too much.

Orange it it then....

(Besides, I don't think I can wait until the spring)