Snow
- Thread starter fitzz47
- Start date
jayjoshjake
Member
- :
- '10 CX 9 GT/AWD
Neither did I .. A lot of members don't like the stock Duellers but I thought it handles OK.
IslandTractor
Member
- :
- 2010 CX9 GT Silver/Blk
I agree as well. This winter we've already had about 50 inches of snow and I have driven each snow day after clearing the driveway. The stock duellers on the CX9 are every bit as good as OEM tires on Mercedes, Nissan and Jeep SUV's I've owned. I think it is a self perpetuating forum hysteria that continues to trash talk the Duellers. That or simply lack of experience driving in snow. Some guys are even replacing the new stock tires with only 500 miles on them before they have ever touched snow. WTF? I really love the "documentation" of the Duellers failings by quoting silly amateur and biased comments from tirerack.com as "evidence". I haven't found a single professional tire review that trashed the Duellers performance in snow and ice, indeed they perform quite well in scientifically more valid road tests.
For most of us it may not even be necessary or advisable to get snow tires. I have debated whether to get snow tires for the winter season (never did with the other SUVs) but have decided to hold off. If I lived in a rural snowy area or in mountains etc or even if I drove every weekend to a ski area, I'd probably get snows. However, living in the Boston burbs where we get about 6 or 7 good snow storms a year, I figure there are about 10-15 days a year when there is actual snow on the driving surface. That means that even in the winter of approx 120 days only about 10% of driving at most will be on snowy roads (recall I am talking about suburbs and urban driving or interstate driving not rural or mountain roads). If you consider that snow tires are demonstrably less effective on pavement, wet or dry, than all season tires, it seems silly to put on snow tires to improve handling in 10% of winter driving at the cost of worse handling and braking for the other 90%. If I lived in an area where the city did not plow or where there were particular hills/driveways etc that posed a unique problem then maybe I'd get snows but for routine mixed driving in metropolitan New England it just doesn't seem necessary with a smart all wheel drive vehicle. Use the all seasons and drive reasonably instead.
For most of us it may not even be necessary or advisable to get snow tires. I have debated whether to get snow tires for the winter season (never did with the other SUVs) but have decided to hold off. If I lived in a rural snowy area or in mountains etc or even if I drove every weekend to a ski area, I'd probably get snows. However, living in the Boston burbs where we get about 6 or 7 good snow storms a year, I figure there are about 10-15 days a year when there is actual snow on the driving surface. That means that even in the winter of approx 120 days only about 10% of driving at most will be on snowy roads (recall I am talking about suburbs and urban driving or interstate driving not rural or mountain roads). If you consider that snow tires are demonstrably less effective on pavement, wet or dry, than all season tires, it seems silly to put on snow tires to improve handling in 10% of winter driving at the cost of worse handling and braking for the other 90%. If I lived in an area where the city did not plow or where there were particular hills/driveways etc that posed a unique problem then maybe I'd get snows but for routine mixed driving in metropolitan New England it just doesn't seem necessary with a smart all wheel drive vehicle. Use the all seasons and drive reasonably instead.
Last edited:
- :
- 2022 CX-5 Turbo
Guys, isn't that obvious?
People who have not tried Spec-X think Duelers are fine (though $50 more expensive).
Those who have wish they had made the swap sooner....
If you are happy with Duelers, good for you.
I see no need to throw them away unless you don't feel safe riding on them.
I lived with Duelers for 25K miles. These tires are average performers, but not dangerous.
It is just that for $200 a piece, it is a ripoff.
People who have not tried Spec-X think Duelers are fine (though $50 more expensive).
Those who have wish they had made the swap sooner....
If you are happy with Duelers, good for you.
I see no need to throw them away unless you don't feel safe riding on them.
I lived with Duelers for 25K miles. These tires are average performers, but not dangerous.
It is just that for $200 a piece, it is a ripoff.
Last edited:
- :
- 2010 Mazda CX-9 GT Dolphin Gray
Another thing to keep on mind is the type of snow your driving over. Light fluffy, slushy or pasty snow will all be handled differently with different tires. And of course driving ability is a factor as well. So many people forget that awd doesn't mean youll stop better than 2wd. Many of us see awd cars off the road because their drivers are either stupid or their car isnt properly prepared for winter i.e. Snow tires.
This is not about hysteria it's about experience and being safe. Its a proven fact that snow tires will stop and start better on snow. All you need is a few feet to make the different between preventing an accident. If you feel safe on stock tires thats fine. But if you want that extra margin of safety while paying LESS money for better tires than the deulers are not the best choice. +1 Cedric.
This is not about hysteria it's about experience and being safe. Its a proven fact that snow tires will stop and start better on snow. All you need is a few feet to make the different between preventing an accident. If you feel safe on stock tires thats fine. But if you want that extra margin of safety while paying LESS money for better tires than the deulers are not the best choice. +1 Cedric.
Last edited:
Wisconsin Proud
Member
Bingo, Antonio!
Out East, they might get several inches of snow but generally the temperatures hover around 30 degrees making the snow wet and not slippery. Drive in MN or WI when we get a 10 inch snow storm followed by temps near zero and the conditions are completely opposite.
Ive had all types of vehicles in my 30 years of driving and NOTHING compares to Blizzak Winter tires. Can you "get by" with all season tires? Sure. But you have to drive much more cautiously.
Out East, they might get several inches of snow but generally the temperatures hover around 30 degrees making the snow wet and not slippery. Drive in MN or WI when we get a 10 inch snow storm followed by temps near zero and the conditions are completely opposite.
Ive had all types of vehicles in my 30 years of driving and NOTHING compares to Blizzak Winter tires. Can you "get by" with all season tires? Sure. But you have to drive much more cautiously.
IslandTractor
Member
- :
- 2010 CX9 GT Silver/Blk
A couple of points:
First, I was not saying that there is no improvement from snow tires over all seasons. My point was that even during the winter, especially in urban and suburban areas where plows clear the roads pretty quickly, the amount of TIME spent driving in snow is a small fraction of the time/mileage driven during the winter. That plus the fact that all seasons are demonstrably better on dry or wet pavement compared to snows suggest that it makes more sense to drive carefully in snow with your all seasons for the 10% of time those conditions exist and then drive normally on dry/wet pavement durng the winter (90% of driving). The alternative is to use snows where you will certainly get better traction during the 10% snow days but you will also clearly have LESS traction on the 90% of wet/dry/no snow days. So the choice seems to be 1) drive more carefully on the 10% snow days with all seasons or 2) drive more carefully on the 90% non snow days with true snow tires. In the era when cars were RWD we absolutely needed snow tires but all seasons are a very good compromise, in many cases far better than snows, for many folks who deal with winter snow but also drive on dry/wet winter pavement. As noted in my earlier post, all bets are off if you live on a steep hill or in a rural or moutainous area where the plows and salt don't get you down to dry pavement in a day or two.
Second point, I have no doubt that ANY new tire drives better than the old worn out tire you have just replaced. The argument that only those who have driven the Spec X are qualified to comment is a little silly as those people have clearly not tried a new set of Duellers in comparison to their old worn out set. And, no one can recall accurately what a set of tires felt like 30,000 miles ago. When I go to replace my OEM tires I will clearly consider the Spec X as 1) they are clearly less expensive and 2) a lot of people are happy with them. Neither of those two points however makes the Duellers lousy tires that don't function in the snow or ice. My main point was that it just seems silly to dump nearly brand new OEM Duellers like some folks seem to have been convinced by this site to do.
Finally, I don't know what the snow is like in Wisconsin but I assure you we get 12-18 inches at a time at least a few times a year in NE and a lot of smaller storms. We are up to something over 50 inches so far this season in the Boston area. The temperatures in the past week have been from 0-34. These may not be Canadian or lake effect conditions but we know real snow. Unless you live on a hill it is perfectly possible, with AWD, to function without snows.
First, I was not saying that there is no improvement from snow tires over all seasons. My point was that even during the winter, especially in urban and suburban areas where plows clear the roads pretty quickly, the amount of TIME spent driving in snow is a small fraction of the time/mileage driven during the winter. That plus the fact that all seasons are demonstrably better on dry or wet pavement compared to snows suggest that it makes more sense to drive carefully in snow with your all seasons for the 10% of time those conditions exist and then drive normally on dry/wet pavement durng the winter (90% of driving). The alternative is to use snows where you will certainly get better traction during the 10% snow days but you will also clearly have LESS traction on the 90% of wet/dry/no snow days. So the choice seems to be 1) drive more carefully on the 10% snow days with all seasons or 2) drive more carefully on the 90% non snow days with true snow tires. In the era when cars were RWD we absolutely needed snow tires but all seasons are a very good compromise, in many cases far better than snows, for many folks who deal with winter snow but also drive on dry/wet winter pavement. As noted in my earlier post, all bets are off if you live on a steep hill or in a rural or moutainous area where the plows and salt don't get you down to dry pavement in a day or two.
Second point, I have no doubt that ANY new tire drives better than the old worn out tire you have just replaced. The argument that only those who have driven the Spec X are qualified to comment is a little silly as those people have clearly not tried a new set of Duellers in comparison to their old worn out set. And, no one can recall accurately what a set of tires felt like 30,000 miles ago. When I go to replace my OEM tires I will clearly consider the Spec X as 1) they are clearly less expensive and 2) a lot of people are happy with them. Neither of those two points however makes the Duellers lousy tires that don't function in the snow or ice. My main point was that it just seems silly to dump nearly brand new OEM Duellers like some folks seem to have been convinced by this site to do.
Finally, I don't know what the snow is like in Wisconsin but I assure you we get 12-18 inches at a time at least a few times a year in NE and a lot of smaller storms. We are up to something over 50 inches so far this season in the Boston area. The temperatures in the past week have been from 0-34. These may not be Canadian or lake effect conditions but we know real snow. Unless you live on a hill it is perfectly possible, with AWD, to function without snows.
- :
- 2010 Mazda CX-9 GT Dolphin Gray
FWIW
I also live in MA and I find that out west snow is very different with respect to quality (e.g. powerdery, slushy/pasty) than in the city. I agree that there are many inconsistencies within this snow/the right tires discussion. For me personally though I break it down like this:
-factory oem tires are overpriced and by comparison of mediocre qulaity/performance when compared to many aftermarket tires. I have never tried the Yoko X-spec myself but I have no doubt given years of experience that they are probably a better overall tire than the factory oem FOR THE PRICE.
- weather conditions, driving conditions, snow removal and snow quality can vary considerably across the continent so some people may have different opinions on how well a specific brand of tire performs. I know my dealership has had many CX-9 drivers with the 20 inch wheels go off the road. They attribute this to the tire but who knows how much of it is due to stupid people believing that AWD renders them invincible.
- personally I've found snows to be worth the added cost due to two things:
- improved low temp traction on snow gives that extra margin of safety, i.e. two feet can mean the difference between a near miss or an accident.
- saves the more expensive factory rims from salt corrosion and and winter road dangers (e.g. potholes, unplowed curbs increases tread life by splitting up yearly mileage across tow sets if tires.
I understand that snow tires will not stop as quickly on dry pavement but in my area there are many streets that still have a coating of snow/ice. Sure you may have to leave more room to stop on dry roads but at least that distance is more consistent given the more consistent levels of friction offered by a dry road compared to a snow covered road that has more variability as far as how much friction the tire has to work with.
For me it's no different than the reasons I have for wearing good water proof winter shoes during the winter and not dress/casual shoes.
IMO
I also live in MA and I find that out west snow is very different with respect to quality (e.g. powerdery, slushy/pasty) than in the city. I agree that there are many inconsistencies within this snow/the right tires discussion. For me personally though I break it down like this:
-factory oem tires are overpriced and by comparison of mediocre qulaity/performance when compared to many aftermarket tires. I have never tried the Yoko X-spec myself but I have no doubt given years of experience that they are probably a better overall tire than the factory oem FOR THE PRICE.
- weather conditions, driving conditions, snow removal and snow quality can vary considerably across the continent so some people may have different opinions on how well a specific brand of tire performs. I know my dealership has had many CX-9 drivers with the 20 inch wheels go off the road. They attribute this to the tire but who knows how much of it is due to stupid people believing that AWD renders them invincible.
- personally I've found snows to be worth the added cost due to two things:
- improved low temp traction on snow gives that extra margin of safety, i.e. two feet can mean the difference between a near miss or an accident.
- saves the more expensive factory rims from salt corrosion and and winter road dangers (e.g. potholes, unplowed curbs increases tread life by splitting up yearly mileage across tow sets if tires.
I understand that snow tires will not stop as quickly on dry pavement but in my area there are many streets that still have a coating of snow/ice. Sure you may have to leave more room to stop on dry roads but at least that distance is more consistent given the more consistent levels of friction offered by a dry road compared to a snow covered road that has more variability as far as how much friction the tire has to work with.
For me it's no different than the reasons I have for wearing good water proof winter shoes during the winter and not dress/casual shoes.
IMO
Last edited:
I've driven the Duellers on snow and ice without incident. But there is no question that the CX-9 is more sure footed with Blizzaks. Blizzaks are on November to March and, yes, they're probably not as good on dry pavement but the Blizzaks' advantage over the Duellers is very apparent on snow or ice. The Dueller's advantage over the Blizzaks on dry pavement is probably real but not nearly as great. This complicates some of the 90/10% reasoning above. Yes, the Blizzaks may be a bit worse 90% of the winter. But they are much better for the 10%. It all comes down to your environment and driving needs.
- :
- 2010 Mazda CX-9 GT Dolphin Gray
We actually lucked out and found some CX-7 rims (with TMPS) and winter tires on Craigslist for cheap money ($675). IMO I run steelies with winterforce tiress on my Mz6 during the winter and it looks horrible, but it's covered by roadgrime and snow most of the time so it's "looks" are compromised anyway and the steelies are much easier/cheaper to fix if they encounter a curb or gigantic pothole. IMO
With the amount of snow the NE/Mass have received this month (and more coming tomorrow) I've given up on tryign to keep the exterior of our cars clean. At least they they have a nice layer of wax and will make me appreciate how great they'll look once I give them a good wash and claybar in the spring- which if you ask me can't come fast enough!
With the amount of snow the NE/Mass have received this month (and more coming tomorrow) I've given up on tryign to keep the exterior of our cars clean. At least they they have a nice layer of wax and will make me appreciate how great they'll look once I give them a good wash and claybar in the spring- which if you ask me can't come fast enough!
Last edited:
I live in Staten island, NY and not one issue with the stock tires. That actually perform really well. I have dove my 9 in spots other suv's would not dare to do and i get in and out easily. We received well over 50 inches of snow and i have had suv's, trucks etc...and the 9 really holds its own if not out performed my other vehicles. Before i was bought the 9 i read so many reviews saying how bad the tires are in the snow and i was really ready to buy tires and swap them out immediately. I am so glad I did not waste my money. When these tires go to tire heaven then i will make sure i buy the best.
After the non stop snow of this winter in NJ and a new storm of either snow and ice every few days putting on the Yoko's and ditching the OEMs before it even all began has made me nothing but happy with the purchase. It might have been a bit out of the ordinary but with the kind of weather we have been having I have no regrets at all in spending the money for a pregnant wife driving it every day.
- :
- 2022 CX-5 Turbo
Yes. Same Duelers.
Mazda probably has a long term deal with Bridgestone, who sells Mazda Duelers at lower price, and tries to
cover the revenue back from replacement sales. Think Printer-Ink business model.
I too question the comments on tire rack, but I can't question my own experience, and the feedback from my wife who knows nothing about tires. Her first obervation was that the CX-9 almost got her killed because she slid into an intersection on light snow that would have been no problem for her old CR-V.
This is simply not true. I recall reading an engineering type article on "snow" tires that explained, in depth, the differences between "3 season tires" and "winter tires". If I can find the link I'll post it. The most important difference between the two is the tread compound. 3-season tires are designed with a rubber compound that remains near it's peak performance during normal operating temperatures, with winter tires designed for peak performance at much colder temps. The article stated the point at which a winter tire begins to match the all season tire on dry pavement is around 40 degrees. Any colder and the winter tire will perform BETTER as the all seasons tire compound becomes harder. They actually had skidpad numbers attached.
In a climate like yours (and mine) where the mean temperature is below 40 degrees from mid november through early April, you would likely spend over 90% of your driving time experiencing BETTER handling with winter tires.
