Same amount of HP Loss for Hatch and Sedan Drivetrain!

[Mazda3hatchback]

Hey guys I was looking at the forums and just realized that Both automatic and Manual Mazda 3's put out nearly the same amount of horsepower. What I am trying to get at is the guy with the name AZMZ3 has a sedan and puts out 141hp at the wheels stock and has a manual tranny. I have an automatic Hatchback with a 134 hp at the wheels stock. Both have had dyno runs and puts our cars at this power range. Now realize that the sedan is lighter than the hatch so because of the weight of the hatch it basically loses almost another 5-7 hp. Mazda must have tuned that automatic very well to be nearly equal to the manual tranny. Now one other thing my chrome wheels I bought are heavier than the stock alloys. Meaning a few more HP was lost as well when you factor them in. Heres my dyno to prove my HP.

 

[tgv121281]

Did you guys do your dynos on the same machine, back to back??? If not..its probably not an entirely accurate comparison.

 

[AzMz3]

Hey guys I was looking at the forums and just realized that Both automatic and Manual Mazda 3's put out nearly the same amount of horsepower. What I am trying to get at is the guy with the name AZMZ3 has a sedan and puts out 141hp at the wheels stock and has a manual tranny. I have an automatic Hatchback with a 134 hp at the wheels stock. Both have had dyno runs and puts our cars at this power range. Now realize that the sedan is lighter than the hatch so because of the weight of the hatch it basically loses almost another 5-7 hp. Mazda must have tuned that automatic very well to be nearly equal to the manual tranny. Now one other thing my chrome wheels I bought are heavier than the stock alloys. Meaning a few more HP was lost as well when you factor them in. Heres my dyno to prove my HP.

Weight on a dyno doesn't mean a thing. The wheel might show a difference, but I'm not so sure it will be that muck in the HP area.

I have see other Mazda3 manuals dyno right around 140whp/140wtq. I'd say that you dyno is alittle high for an auto.
It is the same tranny that is in the Ford Focus and there will be a difference between 10 - 18whp between the manual and auto. That is a big gap because of tuning, not all cars are tuned the same from factory. I'd be willing to be that if a stock manual 3 was to dyno on the same dyno that Mazda3hatchback dyno'd on we would see a good 10+whp difference.

Not putting the auto down at all, but with as much as I know about the auto tranny, I can strongly say that Mazda did not tune it close to the manual.

 

[Mazda3hatchback]

You could possibly be right but remember this car was made in japan not america where the focus was built. Meaning that japanese technology took over this car. If you take a closer look at the tranny it is a sport tuned transmission with a final gear ratio of 4:42's. And the biggest thing of all like you said, all cars coming out of the plant run differently. I might have been a lucky one. As for the dyno sheet I was there while they dynoed my car for the first time. I got to see how it was done. Unfortunately I didnt see the actual intake installed dyno run. That would have been cool. Hey one thing I was thinking about was that when you install a new performance product like an intake or exhaust, doesnt the car have to be driven for at least 100 miles or more to get a more accurate reading on the dyno? The reason I ask is because the computer needs to absorb the new flow of air and exhaust and it usually takes that amount of time. Shouldnt the gains be better after the computer has fully gathered the air fuel ratio?

 

[njaremka]

It is not uncommon for a 10% variance between completely stock eninges, even if they were built right next to each other at the factory.

 

[garretts77]

And I think that I remember that the power loss difference between most modern autos vs. manuals is about 3% of total horsepower...

 

[AzMz3]

You could possibly be right but remember this car was made in japan not america where the focus was built. Meaning that japanese technology took over this car. If you take a closer look at the tranny it is a sport tuned transmission with a final gear ratio of 4:42's. And the biggest thing of all like you said, all cars coming out of the plant run differently. I might have been a lucky one. As for the dyno sheet I was there while they dynoed my car for the first time. I got to see how it was done. Unfortunately I didnt see the actual intake installed dyno run. That would have been cool. Hey one thing I was thinking about was that when you install a new performance product like an intake or exhaust, doesnt the car have to be driven for at least 100 miles or more to get a more accurate reading on the dyno? The reason I ask is because the computer needs to absorb the new flow of air and exhaust and it usually takes that amount of time. Shouldnt the gains be better after the computer has fully gathered the air fuel ratio?

There is not much Japanese tech in that tranny, it is the same as the Focus. Just with a different name. And it is far from a sport tuned transmission.
The closest way to see how much of a difference there is between the auto and the manual is to have some one with a manual dyno stock at the same place you did and compare it to your stock one. It will not be completely true but will be close to see if their dyno reads high. You can also change the numbers on the dyno to read higher, I can change certian things on mine to read up to 145whp stock. And another thing is when modding the manaul will start to pull further away in HP/TQ..meaning you will get better gains with the manual.

As for letting the computer readjust, some say it does and some say it doesn't need time to adjust. I alway disconnect the batter when doing any mods. And I think that the ECU can tell with the first start up after.

 

[Mazda3hatchback]

As I said before I was there when they dynoed my car. No changes were made. As for the manual your right about quicker acceleration due to higher gear ratios on the manual but horsepower can still remain nearely the same.

 

[AzMz3]

As I said before I was there when they dynoed my car. No changes were made. As for the manual your right about quicker acceleration due to higher gear ratios on the manual but horsepower can still remain nearely the same.

I don't think you understand me. The changes could have been that way when you got there. Which means that their dyno might read higher.
I don't know what your talking about with the HP beening the same. The HP will never be the same unless you are comparing a modded auto to a stock manual.
I meant that the hp/tq gains will almost always be higher for the manual when modding. Which is usually why companies dyno a manual to test their products. Meaining the manual shows better gains.

 

[Mazda3hatchback]

Well your dynos dont even look real from your earlier posts. they dont even have the logo of the company you did them from. I do understand what your saying that manuals can have higer gains because its all from the gear ratios. If you compare the gear ratios from a manual to an auto they are higher than the auto. Thats why they are quicker in acceleration. Dont need to be jealous that an auto makes nearly as much as you. Just chill man and let it go. Lets see the real dynos of your car because those dynos you gave us looks like it was done off a powerpoint presentation before you make assumptions.

 

[AzMz3]

Well your dynos dont even look real from your earlier posts. they dont even have the logo of the company you did them from. I do understand what your saying that manuals can have higer gains because its all from the gear ratios. If you compare the gear ratios from a manual to an auto they are higher than the auto. Thats why they are quicker in acceleration. Dont need to be jealous that an auto makes nearly as much as you. Just chill man and let it go. Lets see the real dynos of your car because those dynos you gave us looks like it was done off a powerpoint presentation before you make assumptions.

What are you talking about I never even posted my dynos!
You are just not understanding. And coming form a auto into the manual there is not a thing in the world an auto can do to make me jealous.
You are the one speaking about gear ratios and that is not the only reason the auto is slower than the manual.
It wouldn't bother me at all if the auto makes as much power as the manual, it is just too bad I am in the real world and know that is far from the truth. (rofl2)
I think you are the one that needs to quite making assumptions....sport tranny...LOL I guess because it has the sport shift you thik it is a sport tranny. Read up on the auto tranny especially this one and you will find that everything I posted is fact.

 

[Mazda3hatchback]

Well I could have sworn you put in your dyno sheets, so how can we believe you even had your car dynoed. Your full of crap saying they tweak their dynos. If you read closely I got to see everything and They didnt do a damn thing to it. I never said anything about it being a sport shift. I am in the real world asshole and if you ever say I am lying I am not because I actually have dyno sheets to prove it. You dont, so step off. Until you can show me proof of real dyno sheets dont say that my car can make that kind of power. You just have a weak car and cant put power down. Your car should be making around 145 or more at least a 10 HP loss from the crank. 25 HP is a good loss for an auto tranny. So sit down shut up and deal with it loser.

 

[Mazda3hatchback]

Dude do you realize the hatch is better looking than your girly car. Sedans are the girls car of choice. Get some balls and face it your car is slow for a sedan. Its pretty sad man that you have to be the ignorant one. As you know my car is a looker and its not called a wagon. Its a hatch back for your info. Anyways you can step down now. Your words are useless and dont mean a damn thing until you show dyno sheets. Unless your full of crap and never had your car dynoed, HA HA! (spank) (smash) (rofl2) See ya.

 

[wongpres]

Ok, enough with the personal insults or this thread's going to be lclosed.

 

[tgv121281]

Ummm, the 5doors ARE technically WAGONS.........I'm not taking sides, just throwing that out there....

 

[ProtegeES03]

By the way, he is stating that different dynos may vary, i.e. dyno at 2 different places may yield different hp/tq readings for the same car. He isn't implying they dynoed your car improperly.

In otherwords he's saying the comparison is less accurate due to the fact that the two cars were dynoed at different locations under possibly different conditions.

 

[AzMz3]

By the way, he is stating that different dynos may vary, i.e. dyno at 2 different places may yield different hp/tq readings for the same car. He isn't implying they dynoed your car improperly.

In otherwords he's saying the comparison is less accurate due to the fact that the two cars were dynoed at different locations under possibly different conditions.

Some how I think that is still too much for him to understand.

Dynos can very and often do. They have to be properly set up be the operator to give accurate readings. I only go to one dyno shop in AZ. I will be goning there for a baseline of what I'm at now and after my exhaust.
I get my dyno sheets emailed to me so I can see and over lap previous dyno runs. This is the best way to have them. They dyno shop sends you the link so you can get the DynoVeiwer software.

 

[goldwing2000]

Ok, enough with the personal insults or this thread's going to be lclosed.

I see no reason to wait...

(locked)